Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Duppin]

Originally Posted by bitch are your retarded?

No one said anything about killing wow or majority subs. There's a big difference between releasing a game to a market of hundreds of thousands willing to subscribe monthly to a game and a market of multi-millions. You're absolutely retarded if you think brand loyalty can have any impact when comparing a market that has witnessed exponential growth like this one. It's not even worth arguing.

Vanguard will continue to suck, but by sheer elementary math they will sell an increased number of boxes because of the exponentially larger market that wow has introduced to MMO's. I'd say it's about the only thing Vanguard has going for it, and will lose all its momentum soon thereafter

Your username makes me cringe, but I approve of your post.

Here's a hint for the fanbois: Just because YOU are rabidly devoted to all things Blizzard, it does not follow that all, or even a majority of, WoW's subscribers share your level of devotion.

If there's another game out there that appeals to them in some way, they'll try it, and many of them were brought into this gaming space for the first time BY WoW and the market is now indisputably larger than it was before.

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by darksensei

By the time GMG comes out with their game WoW will be very outdated graphically, people whom have been playing for years will be getting burnt out. But if there was a way to see this through, I'd wager Bioware's MMO and GMG surpass 1 million subscribers each perhaps even higher depending on the game itself.

The first GMG fanboy? Let's hold up giving GMG, a new developer, 1 million subscribers before a game name, setting, etc. are even announced please.

[darksensei]

Of course if the game sucks, like LOTRO, not even big names will sell it. But it isn't difficult to imagine R.A. Salvatore, and Todd McFarlane's names selling it. Also why is it unreasonable to speculate that it might take place around the Sword Coast? DND online was in eberron, and Bioware's game won't be in DnD. Is that number unreasonable if you assume that the game takes place in the location's of Salvatore's books?

[Arukk]

Originally Posted by Moorgard Mobhunter

Rather than a bunch of scheming developers looking to take advantage of investor naiveté, often it's a case of venture capitalists looking for ways to compound their money seeking out hot trends like WoW's splash in the MMO market.

But anyway, I question the notion that WoW has a unique market that won't shift to any other MMO. Whenever there is a huge success in a given movie genre (fantasy, superhero, horror, etc.) there are a dozen similar movies released afterward. Those that are good films become hits while the poorly made ones tank. But to say that no fantasy movie could be a huge hit after the Lord of the Rings trilogy's success would be absurd; it all depends on the quality of the movie.

With games, I believe a game that is fun, polished, well-marketed, and easily available for purchase and play can absolutely attract WoW players as well as a huge segment of the population that never tried MMOs before. It comes down to the quality of the game and the ability for the average person to see it, want it, buy it, install it, and enjoy it.

That's a rather simplistic way to put it, but there is no shortage of companies that managed to screw up one or more of those steps horribly.

That seems way to reasonable for me.

I cant imagine this. All games but mine have to suck, right?

P.S. EQ2's launch still kinda sucked!

[Moorgard Mobhunter]

Originally Posted by Stosh

Can somebody identify which MMO has seen significant subscriber growth that can be attributed to WoW expanding the market? Where has this business theory been proven?

No, there haven't been any runaway smash MMOs since WoW's release, but I don't think anyone in this thread was saying that every future MMO is going to have more subscribers simply because WoW came along. My point was that no MMO has a shot at those numbers unless it's a great game, marketed well, and obtainable.

WoW's success has neither made it easier nor harder to make a great game. That onus still falls upon the developer.

Did WoW's success make it easier for would-be MMO makers to obtain cash from investors? Of course, but that's how it works in any line of business; success brings out lots of people who want to capitalize upon it. These things tend to be cyclical, self-correcting themselves when every investment doesn't result in untold riches. Eventually the money moves elsewhere.

So no, WoW's success doesn't guarantee anyone else's. But it is reasonable to say that many of the new customers WoW brought to the market are probably more likely to try someone else's MMO than they were before. But again, that in and of itself means nothing unless the game they play has what it takes to entertain them. And there certainly exists the potential for some of these folks to be scared away from MMOs altogether by exposure to crappy games.

[Scaffa]

Of course if the game sucks, like LOTRO, not even big names will sell it. But it isn't difficult to imagine R.A. Salvatore, and Todd McFarlane's names selling it.

Well, WoW was sold pretty much on being by Blizzard alone thanks to rapid fanboyism. There are plenty of Salvatore / Todd McFarlane fanboys.

[Arukk]

I think you all should buy some D&D FR love. Make that game, and I will check it out.

-Arukk

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Moorgard Mobhunter

But it is reasonable to say that many of the new customers WoW brought to the market are probably more likely to try someone else's MMO than they were before. But again, that in and of itself means nothing unless the game they play has what it takes to entertain them. And there certainly exists the potential for some of these folks to be scared away from MMOs altogether by exposure to crappy games.

My thought is that eventually WoW will start to see its players wandering off and losing interest; and by that, I mean at a level that more xpacs and shiny lootz/zones won't fix. Maybe another 2 to 4 years from now WoW will be old hat, and eventually even the players that lost their virginity to WoW will be looking for bigger, better things. (pun not intended, but lol anyways) Mostly I'm thinking of the players that WoW brought into MMOs, that weren't traditional MMO players to begin with.

WoW imo stands as an awesome game, from the viewpoint of being an easy/friendly game to start, and (so far) one in which it isn't too awfully hard to catch up to the hardcores, at least for now (compared to EQ atm, huge difference). Simple in many regards? Absolutely. But for the time being, it stands on its own, easily.

Its one thing for me to feel bored with WoW; I've played other games and I can see the shortfalls of WoW as easily as anyone else (though obviously, perhaps, I am more willing to put up with them than some others are). Still, I am in the minority of the MMO players out there as are most of the posters here I suspect. The majority of WoW players are neither simplistic or stupid, though I am sure you can find people who fill those in any population, at worst they might be ignorant or inexperienced - especially in the broader nature of MMO's in general. They are still running around in WoW with the same glint in their eyes that many of us had in our earlier MMO's, and I'm certain that in time they will tire of WoW as we did of our first games, and look for something new.

The difference is, I suppose, is that instead of the prior generation of gamers moving from hardcore "1st gen" to Blizz's 'new take on mmo's', the current "WoW generation" will possibly be looking for a game that is fun as WoW was, but perhaps more in-depth, more difficult, and less "Me pay, me play, me want rewards now!". Many people that I know for whom WoW was their first MMO, have commented to me on many occasions that they would like to try something 'more epic', 'not so easy, less entitlement' and 'less running around with random idiots'. It's hilarious to see the ideas forming amongst them already, ideas that I am certain will eventually blossom into a desire for (I am grimacing when I say this) a "Real MMO". Even amongst the WoW generation I know, there seems to be an acceptance that the UO/EQ/EQ2/VG/etc etc mmo's are 'harder' to start' and 'more difficult to excel in', while WoW is in many ways an older MMO simplified in some regards. These gamers understand that concept on some level, and I do not think they will turn their noses up indefinetely at other more traditional games. To put it another way, WoW might end up being one of the best things to ever happen to the genre, irregardless of what the biggest naysayers may think. Millions of potential players have flooded into the market, doubtless with millions more to follow. WoW almost seems to me to be a "EQ-lite", and in 10 years we may look back and liken it to a minor-league baseball/soccer/hockey outfit that not only gave new players a taste for MMO's that every other game failed to accomplish, but also prepared them to move on to 'The Big Show', whichever or whatever that turns out to be in the future. (gratuitous analogy in the spirit of the thread I suppose rofl) WoW = farm league? Now, I'm not sold on that idea myself yet, but its a possibility.

Maybe Sigil made a mistake trying to change their target market rather than catering to the vanbois, I dunno. Even if VG comes off as a smashing success, I don't think it will be enough in the face of TBC to draw the WoW generation away. 2 years from now? Maybe. 3? Probably easier still. But eventually I would guess that it will be easier and easier to pull that market away from Blizzard...just not right now. Maybe GMG will be well positioned, time-wise, to take advantage of this in the future. And concerning Sigil in this thinking...maybe rather than releasing in 2007, they would have been better off holding off for a few years and aiming for 2009-ish, but then again, I cannot fault Brad and Co. in that, to be fair.

While I admit I see a lot of WoW players who seem pointed at returning to the nether reaches of the RTS/FPS/Console/RPG realm once WoW hits retirement age, at the same time I get the feeling that many of the WoW virgins feel challenged with WoW (though often not enough) and their interest in other MMO's has been piqued. Once WoW winds down these players might be ready to flood the market, and whoever is in position to capitalize on it will win, and win big. Hookers and coke for everybody! (or whatever the personal preference is lol)

[Tyen]

On November 1, 2006, certain creditors of Interplay Entertainment Corp.
("Interplay") filed an involuntary bankruptcy petition against Interplay. The
petition was filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Central District of
California, in Santa Ana, California. Interplay has retained the law firm of
Winthrop Couchot Professional Corporation to represent it in opposing the
involuntary petition. Interplay anticipates that a motion to dismiss the
involuntary petition will be filed timely for a hearing to take place on
February 22, 2007.

Interplay is not in the best position right now, and they have in their little hands, what could be, the best MMO. They are desperate and it would be a great business decision, and an amazing industry decision to give the potential "Fallout MMO" some thought.

I do understand that:

Note: Green Monster Games does not accept idea submissions from third parties. Accordingly, please do not communicate unauthorized idea submissions to Green Monster Games through this website or by written or electronic communication.

But when I see something that could be potentially ground breaking for the industry aswell as money symbols written all over it, I tend to get pretty passionate about.

[Faille]

I think SWG, and to some extent EQ2, proved that a franchise doesn't translate into successful MMO. The game itself has to be fun, and at that point, it doesn't really matter if its tied into a existing IP or a whole new one. In fact, trying to tie into an existing franchise is liable to cause more problems then it solves, and serves to handicap developers.

Before people jump up and down pointing to WoW, I think its be said, that their first aim was to have a single zone to build a fun game in before turning to the rest of the world, and I also think its pretty clear that WoW doesn't really resemble the gample of the warcraft games.

Much as I would like to experience a Fallout MMO, I would much rather GMG, or any other developers, try and identify what attracted people to the fallout games, and use that as a guide in developing their game, but starting from scratch, so that if necessary, they can throw out parts that don't work or drag the game down.

[Erronius]

Originally Posted by Faille

Much as I would like to experience a Fallout MMO, I would much rather GMG, or any other developers, try and identify what attracted people to the fallout games, and use that as a guide in developing their game, but starting from scratch, so that if necessary, they can throw out parts that don't work or drag the game down.

I'm sure that it is different from person to person, but to me at least what springs to mind:

- Adult content, was not so antiseptic and PC to become a turn-off (I won't play a sanitized Fallout, whether FO3, or MMO).
- Oddball content (was it Harold, the zombie, who had the tree growing out of his head?)
- Guns. 'Nuff said.
- Spraying said guns through crowds, including your own party members.
- Reloading your game after the above goes badly (now known to me as "Pulling a Cheney"). Might be fun in an MMO, your ranger (minigun-toting idiot) goes "oops"...time for a CR.
- Interesting skill/attribute system, though a few complaints here and there
- Everything from 40k-type power-fists, to lasers (pew pew!)
- Interesting storyline that wasn't regurgitated from a gazillion other games
- Concept art of course must be mentioned. Cool.
- Turn based. I liked the X-com stuff too /shrug. Not that this would make a diff in an MMO...but anyways
- Robots, cyborgs, aliens, mutants...
- Gotta love "Kama Sutra Master", and who didn't take the "Always view the worst way to die" thing?
- Imagine, just imagine, the FO:MMO cyber. That, and the Screenshot fun to be had along with it.

For an MMO, add in any combination of:

- Mutant
- Alien
- Cyborg
- Robot
- Addict/fiend
- any variation of social paragon/deviant beyond just RP emotes
- military/civilian/tribal/hubologist/BoS/etc
- beautiful female something or other type - so the Cuppycakes have something to play when there are no elves
- Crafting that matters, items that can only be crafted, drops that are worthless unless a 'crafter' fixes (drugs, repairs like Vic, etc)

I'm still not sold that anyone could transfer the 'it' that Fallout had, into an MMO. And even if someone could actually pull it off, I wouldn't want it marred by PoK/Barrens chat, PUGs, raiding (in my mind, thats contrary to Fallout, but since few have broken that mold...) and e-peen wars that weren't in the FO games.

If someone could take the FO IP, combine in a dark, gritty EVE type world (based on terra firma though), with a faction system that was integrated into full-on PvP rather than just values attached to mobs, and a deviation from tank/healer/DPS exactly (not sure how it would apply to FO though)...I'd at least buy a box and try it.

Faction kept popping into my mind throughout this. Kill a hooker? Faction. Kill another PC of a different "faction"? Same dealio. Guilds = Mob families/Organizations etc.. Guilds being a focus not of raiding, but of territory protection/control (as in DaoC or even EVE), as well as "war" control...so, having Guild Leadership being able to toggle war status to represent whats going on, with faction thresholds versus other Guilds. Of course I realize that prob is too cumbersome, and a huge undertaking, so a 'hands off' EVE type sandbox deal might be preferrable, I admit...might just have to keep up on who is KOS to who, PC-wise.

[WillzZz]

-A 3d "Clean" Fallout MMO will be unplayed by most FO fans.

-Your suggestion of an EvE-like world in the FO universe makes me wet my pants in anticipation.

/changepants

- After a minor amount of research it has come to my attention that the FR universe in all interactive forms is exclusively locked down by Atari. So that rules that out completely =(

Still, I don't think the next revolutionary game will be created in a popular existing IP. It will be revolutionary gameplay concepts and quality that make it stand above the rest, not identifiable content/art. MMO's are officially mainstream now, but it doesn't necessarily mean there's more people interested in new games. My friends who play WoW as their first MMORPG have no idea what Vanguard is, and that's probably the biggest news in the industry other than WoW right now. Mainstream exposure of WoW is good, but plenty of people are overexaggerating the effects to try to get their hands on some money. End result? Good for the industry long-term, a rush of mediocrity for 5-6 years short-term.

[Kazgrim]

I'd agree that the market is harder, in that a "better" MMO needs to be released now in order to gain even a portion of the subs that WoW has. Wasn't it reported that WoW cost almost 4 times to develop than many of the MMO's which were created at roughly the same time?

No. What has been reported is that Vivendi has stated to their investors that blizzard can turn any of their franchises into MMOs for $50 million and 4-5 years of dev time. That $50mil figure includes Blizzard's current company size, greatly expanded from when they were developing WoW. WoW itself cost a little less than EQ2 did to develop.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Erronius

take the "Always view the worst way to die" thing?

Bloody Mess, one of the best character talents in RPG history.

Was searching around for some fallout stuff and found the intro movies on youtube. Now I wanna find a collectors pack somewhere and play through them all again before Fallout 3.

Fallout 1: YouTube - Fallout Intro Movie

Fallout 2: YouTube - Fallout 2 Intro Movie

Then I found the Fallout:BOS trailer. Never tried the game, but this trailer looks like the writers/directors of 2Fast2Furious and Domino did a new awesome version of Fallout. Or maybe they were going for the C+C Red Alert cut-scene vibe, and just failed horribly:

YouTube - Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel Trailer

[Wodin]

Originally Posted by Arukk

I think you all should buy some D&D FR love. Make that game, and I will check it out.

-Arukk

Having heard firsthand the nightmarish tales that the poor guys at Turbine went through, I'd say they should run screaming from a D&D license.