Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[The Bog]

Saying that Brad "ignored advice" over shipping early is kind of unfair. It's blatant that John Smedley has been at his door, angrily shouting and pissing against it and demanding money from this black hole that he calls "Vanguard."

I do like that after all that Sony rebellion, Brad basically came crawling back. And then made a tough-to-level-in WoW clone, by the sounds of it.

[Kazgrim]

had he followed the advice of the first paragraph I quoted, he wouldn't have had to experience the second. To reiterate, "We probably spent more time on Northshire Valley by an order of magnitude than any other area because it was one of our first areas. We spent a lot of time making it fun first. After we made it fun then we made it big. We didn't go out and build the entire World of Warcraft until we knew what we were building. If we just start building a huge world and haven't figured out all the little details, what's going to make your game fun? What's going to make your combat system fun? How's your quest system going to work? Then once you do figure all that out, you're going to go back through 20, 30, 40 zones and try to retrofit all those ideas back into the game? You're going to be screwed."

[Khane]

How could you turn a thread about your own game company into another Vanguard thread Curt?

sigh.

[Jovec]

250K by year's end for VG. They'll attract a minimal amount of new gamers, and as for their main competition:

1) WoW - different playstyle and vastly different target audience. While WoW is slow to release content, their end-game is generally considered very fun. There is little chance to a mass exodus this year from WoW with TBC just released. Maybe next year when TBC is beaten and Blizzard revert's to it's 4 month patch cycle? PvP (such as it is) seems like it will be much better in WoW than VG, and will be enough for many to stay with WoW.

2) EQ 1 - Some will go, but not many, as those still playing EQ have so much time invested in their characters, and by all accounts, it generally a good time for EQ raiders with a vast amount of content.

3) EQ 2 - not quite EQ1-enough, not quite WoW-enough. Arguably their likeliest source of subs

4) Eve - different games, different audiences.

5) LoTRO, Warhammer, AoC - some upcoming MMOs with decent potential. Many willl either wait for their game license of choice to be released and continue with their current MMO in the meantime, or leave VG if one or more of these games has the polish and content that VG might be lacking.

While the common thinking that VG releasing too early, if you discount the current state of the game, I'd argue that VG is about 12 months too late. Their best window for release was when the WoW end-game was on farm status and their was no new content in sight.

[Lenardo]

practice?

he just asked an honest opinion from us and we...answered.

vanguard after a year- that is a tough one. they have made alot of progress on the client performance lately, and that is one of the things that has really bugged me about Vanguard, i like the design of the monk class in vanguard (wow roguish) and the mechanics they have introduced for the combat system, its the performance of the client that has had my knickers in a bind.


175 to 250 thousand is my estimate- i figure 300 thousand after the first month(initial sales), then maybe a 60% retention rate

[Abalieno]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Any predictions on VG peak subscribers in year 1? I know some numbers

Do you divinate crystal balls as well?

[bitch are your retarded?]

I don't think you can compare the EQ2 launch to VG, the MMO market has exploded since then thanks to WoW. There's 5-6 million people in north america playing mmo's now which was unheard of back then. I think VG's peak subscribers will be quite high as a result.

I don't for a second think they will maintain a number of subs anywhere near the peak but I think in the first month they will sell quite a bit as people try to expand on their new MMO/WoW affections

[Cadrid]

Originally Posted by Khane

How could you turn a thread about your own game company into another Vanguard thread Curt?

sigh.

While this thread is primarily about Curt's new company, other MMOs and events within the industry can have an effect on how he goes about running GMG. While it may seem like a trivial question to many, gaining an insight into how gamers perceive Vanguard's launch (in terms of numbers and success) could certainly be utilized and applied to GMG's upcoming title.

[Plorkyeran]

Originally Posted by bitch are your retarded?

I don't think you can compare the EQ2 launch to VG, the MMO market has exploded since then thanks to WoW. There's 5-6 million people in north america playing mmo's now which was unheard of back then. I think VG's peak subscribers will be quite high as a result.

What MMO are the 3-4 million past WoW's subscribers playing?

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Plorkyeran

What MMO are the 3-4 million past WoW's subscribers playing?

me, personally. I have tried to go back to eq2 a couple timesbut no fun there for me after a week. It is like wow for me in that regard for a week it is a great game that it just dies in terms of fun and becomes repetitive and boring.

I still play alot of AO on and off as it is really the only original MMOG on the scene that isnt a eq clone. It at least feels like I am playing a different game, but it is still very flawed.

Been playing VG beta the last couple months i got in around halloween. But cant play hardcore as i know it is all for nothing and will be wiped.

Played some LOTRO but i havent given that more than maybe 5 hours and I was bored solid already.

Mostly i have had to turn to single player and console gaming coupled with shitty TV.

[Rezz]

Keep in mind, the vast majority of people who were done with EQ and wanting to move on were -pissed- at Sony in general if I remember correctly, and the hype was coming from WoW, not Sony at the time anyway. The early adopters of EQ2 were probably by and the large people who still had active EQ accounts and were hoping it would be a continuation of their previous experience.

At least Vanguard isn't titled EQ3!

[Abalieno]

Originally Posted by bitch are your retarded?

I don't think you can compare the EQ2 launch to VG, the MMO market has exploded since then thanks to WoW.

Wrong and largely diffused assumption. WoW has exploded, not the MMO market.

You want WoW players for your own MMO? Good luck. The market today is HARDER than how it was three years ago.

All the recently released MMO pretty much failed. Vanguard won't be different.

The idea that WoW opened up the market for other companies is a myth that devs are using as a way to find foundings from all those people out there with lots of money but no brain. And it works.

So. WoW was a good thing because now it's easier for MMO companies to find the monies. But it's a dream with short legs.

[Erie]

Originally Posted by Abalieno

Wrong and largely diffused assumption. WoW has exploded, not the MMO market.

You want WoW players for your own MMO? Good luck. The market today is HARDER than how it was three years ago.

All the recently released MMO pretty much failed. Vanguard won't be different.

The idea that WoW opened up the market for other companies is a myth that devs are using as a way to find foundings from all those people out there with lots of money but no brain. And it works.

So. WoW was a good thing because now it's easier for MMO companies to find the monies. But it's a dream with short legs.

WoW is a MMO. The market has increased due to it being released, as there are more MMO players.. there's no way you can win this argurment. Also, don't think that every player still exists in the WoW world, there's probably more that have quit than those that are subscribed to it now. They may or may not be willing to give another MMO a shot.

But really there hasn't been a hyped MMO to release since WoW's release. And I don't count DDO or Guild Wars as MMO's really. I know you can argue with that, but they aren't even close to being alike. Vanguard will be the first big thing to release since WoW, we'll see if it fails or not.

[Vali]

Originally Posted by Abalieno

Wrong and largely diffused assumption. WoW has exploded, not the MMO market.

You want WoW players for your own MMO? Good luck. The market today is HARDER than how it was three years ago.

All the recently released MMO pretty much failed. Vanguard won't be different.

The idea that WoW opened up the market for other companies is a myth that devs are using as a way to find foundings from all those people out there with lots of money but no brain. And it works.

So. WoW was a good thing because now it's easier for MMO companies to find the monies. But it's a dream with short legs.

I agree and disagree -

I'd agree that the market is harder, in that a "better" MMO needs to be released now in order to gain even a portion of the subs that WoW has. Wasn't it reported that WoW cost almost 4 times to develop than many of the MMO's which were created at roughly the same time?

More cash, more development time, easier access (i.e. solo content, decent questing system, well laid out zone structure) to a larger base of players is whats needed. Gameplay and the UI needs to be spot on.

I'd disagree that its not possible for another MMO to achieve similar results. Sure - Blizzard had a good name, and probably quite a few subs from Bnet.

But if you have a kick ass game with a killer release- players will come - hell they will come in droves, WoW already brought them to the market.

I even think the Beta for WoW was one of its biggest draw's. People loved the game in Beta (with a couple gameplay exceptions, like the exp penalty for long periods of play time.. but I think most folks understood it was beta)

We all have our gripes - but WoW is a damn good game, especially pre-max level. But its still got a lot of room to improve. Find a way to do that - and you'll have no problems getting players.


-V

[Deris]

The problem with the MMO's released recently is that they are all trying too hard to capitalize on the new market share WoW has opened up, and these companies are barely putting a year or two into these games, and expect it to compete with WoW? WoW was under dev for 5+ years? Millions upon millions were spent bankrolling this game - and it paid off in spades. When companies realize they can't just push out some pile of crap, then maybe we'll see some successful mmo's, but unfortunately I see alot of the same, same, same. The only shining light of hope being EvE of course.

If anything Curt - look towards EvE/CCP for inspriation, they have their heads on straight. Between that and WoW you can't really go wrong.