Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Caliane]

Originally Posted by Draegan

Grey Vendor items make you have to back and sell them at some points, forcing players back to common areas and perhaps interact with each other. Similar to having to repair armor.

Not arguing good or bad, just saying that's most likely a reason.

Thats actually a good point, I was overlooking.

[Ninajrr]

Ehh, sort of. Sure, they do force you to go back, though that's usually just to a local vendor and not a big city. Even then there is no guaranteed interaction as the entire dilemma can be dealt with exclusively by NPC vendors.

I would agree with the point with regard to other drops, like tradeskill or equipment items, but for trash loot I really don't think that is a valid argument. Afterall, if you're going back to sell your greys you're probably also going back to sell more interactive items (unfortunately in WoW's case this too is without PC interaction as you can go directly through the AH, but still).

Additionally, very few people go back to sell greys. That is, in my experience it is preferrable to delete a few grey items when your inventory is full and wait for a more opportune moment (quest turn-ins, new abilities from leveling, etc.). It is very rare outside of maybe the first 5 levels of WoW that you go back to a town with the intention of selling grey items...

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Ninajrr

Ehh, sort of. Sure, they do force you to go back, though that's usually just to a local vendor and not a big city. Even then there is no guaranteed interaction as the entire dilemma can be dealt with exclusively by NPC vendors.

But to empty your bags you usually do go to a smaller zone hub of some sorts. To some people you get a sense that there are people out there playing the game as well, so it provides a certain feeling of worldliness as you watch people come and go through vendors, repairing and such.

[Ninajrr]

Again though, most people don't return to a hub just to sell greys, in fact that is rarely a factor in it at all as far as I am concerned. The reason I say that is because many people (I sincerely doubt I am the only one who does this...) will delete excess greys in order to make room for greens/quest items while waiting for a more opportune time to go back to town, such as: selling more valuable drops (equipment, tradeskill items), getting/turning in quests, buying new skills, repairing.

The only time this might not be the case is the early levels, in WoW 1-15 or so, but as I said there are other ways to get these effects without the annoyance of greys. Several of those ideas have been mentioned (increasing coin, increasing quest reward, increasing rarity of tradeskill drops to increase respective value, etc.).

[Draegan]

You'd be surprised. There is a large contingent of people who play these games so much differently than you or I.

[Goliath]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Hitting a new level, going to the trainer and finding out I got a new rank of mana shield and dampen magic always pissed me off.

With a scaling system, I know that every time I level up I'm getting a noticeable increase in power, which is cool.

Well 1 and 10 people have a neurological disorder; 1 and 100 have stronger schizophrenia. There's like thousands of people on this forum. Unfortunately the odds hit you and you're batshit insane.

Getting new spells and achieving something at a trainer pisses you off and you like automatic upgrades that reduce immersion to nill.

But hey, you're psychotic so you're oblivious to how stupid this line of thinking is, right?

[Lonin]

While automatic updates to spells/abilities may be taking it a bit too far, I'd really like to see the ability to buy spells/abilities at least a couple levels before you can use them.

[Necrolyte]

Originally Posted by Lonin

While automatic updates to spells/abilities may be taking it a bit too far, I'd really like to see the ability to buy spells/abilities at least a couple levels before you can use them.

Most MMOs had this in some form, where you just bought Skill Books or Tokens that you used to advance when you did level. Players complained about the items taking up inventory space, and we evolved to the system we have now with visits to trainers.

Unless you mean you can purchase the skills at a trainer in advance, but they "unlock" when you level, which would be a hybrid of both solutions.

[Azrayne]

Originally Posted by Goliath

Well 1 and 10 people have a neurological disorder; 1 and 100 have stronger schizophrenia. There's like thousands of people on this forum. Unfortunately the odds hit you and you're batshit insane.

Getting new spells and achieving something at a trainer pisses you off and you like automatic upgrades that reduce immersion to nill.

But hey, you're psychotic so you're oblivious to how stupid this line of thinking is, right?

No, having my abilities upgrade at arbitrary levels and often going 4 - 6 levels at a time without any of the spells that actually make a difference to my character improving pisses me off. But hey, thats cool, instead of telling me why you disagree with me you can just throw baseless ad hominem attacks at me, that makes you look just awesome

[Zehn - Vhex]

It's Goliath. You can pretty much put him on ignore and not miss anything.

Anyways...

Ideally you'd unlock upgrades to abilities as rewards for questing/achievements but in a more standard xp->levels system, it is rather silly that they don't just upgrade as you level.

Upgrading at the trainer made sense in EQ since they considered each new spell an ACTUAL new spell and not just an upgrade to a pervious rank. But in the current system with ranks it just...well...seems silly to not just have the abilities scale. For what it's worth, your spells in EQ ~did~ automatically upgrade as you leveled, though usually in a not significant amount and only for 1~4 levels after you got it...but still.

I mean in WoW the mana cost scales per level making it shittier each level until you get a new rank so why not just fucking upgrade the damage while you're at it? You don't have to go to the trainer to buy your new talent point so...y'know?

It's a leveling tax is all it really is.

[Usha Starchild]

^

If your spells automatically upgraded certian classes would feel like they are not getting anything as they level. Actually clicking and reading the new spells/spell levels at least lets them know they gained something. When I go see someone and they hand me a wad of cash it feels a lot better than when they just transfer it to my bank online.

As for grey items, I feel that grey items that have zero use at all should never be lootable or even show up on corpses. What they need to do is make it so the currently grey items are actually used more in trade skills making them white.

- "broken sword 01" should be repairable or re smelted into ingots.
- "Acolyte's Robe" can be used to make a green robe, or cut into bandages.
- "gold tooth" can be brought to the tooth collector for a "tooth fairy pet" that scales as you bring more teeth
- Misc animal or monster parts could be made into good pet foods.

Maybe they could make it so grey items sold to vendors could be bought back by smelters, enchanters etc.

[Vepil]

Not sure if anyone has this idea as I have not been able to read all suggestions, so I apologize in advance.

What about a system that NPC vendors sell all basic items for crafting but the price is set based on how much grey vendor trash is sold to them. For example:

Cooking: Level 1-30 of 300
Spider meat cost 1 silver each until people start selling the damaged/broken legs they loot. As the vendor receives more loot the price is driven down till say the cost is similar to the farm time to collect said legs to level cooking to 30.

Vendor at happy state is buying legs for 5 copper and selling meat for 3 copper. Using quests to guide players there to kill and collect spiders for use by vendors. Collecting them to sell for silk production to make cloth and so on. This system would have to be monitored based on the population as to not discourage new people that start a few months down the road and do not have the support of guilds and friends.

I know this is really just farming and some will say screw that I do not want to kill spiders which is fine kill humans for broken/rusty weapons that vendors will smelt for weapon and armor smiths. The coin dropped and collected from selling the items will let you buy what you need to level trade skills.

The rare items that drop can be used in crafting without messing with the vendor system and just be an additional slot added during the crafting process. Killing a weapon master he drops a perfect pommel that can add + damage or a dot to the weapon.

Now I do not have a clue if this would be possible or how huge a undertaking it would be to code. I have never done any coding. This is just an idea I have had for a while about making gray trash meaningful.

[Rythonn]

All this talk about grey items is where I start getting annoyed games don't have Smelting. Why can't I, as a blacksmith, smelt that broken sword down to some basic elements. Or use that old shirt for some new cloth. I loved being able to smelt in UO and get some return on things you picked up. The better your skill the more you get back.

[Ninajrr]

Originally Posted by Rythonn

All this talk about grey items is where I start getting annoyed games don't have Smelting. Why can't I, as a blacksmith, smelt that broken sword down to some basic elements. Or use that old shirt for some new cloth. I loved being able to smelt in UO and get some return on things you picked up. The better your skill the more you get back.

This really isn't about grey items though, its about white items. White items are intended to be the mediator between Vendor Trash and Tradeskill items (Blizzard claims: "they have a use to other players"), they should be just that, except all Vendor Trash should be convertible to Tradeskill items via disassembly.

Grey items simply shouldn't exist (an item which is intended exclusively to be Vendor Trash). :P

[Draegan]

Without grey items we would never have The Stoppable Force. Or whatever it was called. I got a chuckle when I first saw that.