Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Faelor]

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but what area was 38 Studios in at NYCC? I heard there was a panel but was there a booth? Had a few buddies go up there and they couldn't find anything, though they are not the most resourceful bunch. They did ask Jerry/Tyco and Mike/Gabe of Penny Arcade as they were setting their area up but they were not sure either.

Just curious, if someone could help me out that would be appreciated. If a booth was set up I'm sure they walked past it.


Oh, and +1 for Mount and Blades. Very different game style, definitely lacked polish though. Now I'm kind of curious as to how big the dev team was.

[Faille]

Originally Posted by Faelor

I may have missed it earlier in the thread, but what area was 38 Studios in at NYCC? I heard there was a panel but was there a booth? Had a few buddies go up there and they couldn't find anything, though they are not the most resourceful bunch. They did ask Jerry/Tyco and Mike/Gabe of Penny Arcade as they were setting their area up but they were not sure either.

Just curious, if someone could help me out that would be appreciated. If a booth was set up I'm sure they walked past it.


Oh, and +1 for Mount and Blades. Very different game style, definitely lacked polish though. Now I'm kind of curious as to how big the dev team was.

pretty sure it was 2 people for most of it's development, a husband and wife team. May have expanded once it got picked up by paradox / steam.

[Draegan]

I didn't see a 38S booth in the games section. I didn't get to go to any of the panels there but I was aware they had some people there. I thought I heard Moorguard was going?

[Ngruk]

We had a few people there to talk on some panels. Steve was one, Gavin and Thom were there as well.
They said it was packed, total chaos!

[Ngruk]

'Noozer posted a link to an article that was an interesting read. Given how much we have talked in here about how hard it is to make games, I thought some might be interested in reading it.

[Locithon]

The only question that matters is if you'll have a Bard class.

[Palum]

Originally Posted by Locithon

The only question that matters is if you'll have a Bard class.

Except that the 38S MMO is undoubtedly sci-fi, trying to break the mold of terrible fantasy games with generitolkien influence. Actually, no, who am I kidding. I do hope they have a good bard, though.

[Torvon]

Originally Posted by Palum

Except that the 38S MMO is undoubtedly sci-fi, trying to break the mold of terrible fantasy games with generitolkien influence. Actually, no, who am I kidding. I do hope they have a good bard, though.

It's going to take World of Starcraft to prove to developers that a sci-fi genre could make it big in the MMORPG world. Once it comes out, then you'll see plenty of clones.

[Murr]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

You meet people that have incredible gifts for game design that suck at or hate games? I can't see it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I'd bet it's someone lying about hating games for some weird personal reasons.

Now Artists, engineers, anyone outside of design I could understand and actually do know and have seen. Designers? Nah, trouble seeing that one.

The distinction I would make in agreeing with some of the other posters is there are designers out there that don't "hate" games per se, but there are a lot of guys out there who aren't passionate about the game they're working on, or the genre they're stuck in, or used to be big into gaming and drifted out of it after spending time in the industry.

I've seen it more than I expected - I work at a small shop and we're all pretty passionate about our product, but we also do some contract work to pay bills. One of the first jobs I did for another studio really stunned me because of the general apathy about the game they were shipping. I got brought in late in the project to help them with some network code and overhead stuff like, "Hey, we should think about playing this online once it comes out" in a manner that suggested they hadn't really even considered playing their own title until just then, like some kind of novelty.

It just felt really alien to me, but I can see how you'd get that way if you had to work on a bunch of projects you weren't happy with or really invested in. The downside being that if you're not very invested in your game, it's just a job, you might be a good designer but you just won't have the insight or desire to make the same caliber game someone who digs in and plays the shit out of their own title.

A good friend of mine works at a larger studio and feels like they're really held back by 9-5'ers who aren't really gamers (albeit those guys aren't necessarily designers, as Curt pointed out) or who just want to follow some formula for more sales (see: most studios' design docs for a 3rd person shooter these days - add cover, over the shoulder cam, perks system +1 misc "unique" feature, sell!) instead of taking the role of the end-user and seeing what works and doesn't just playing through it.

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Murr

The distinction I would make in agreeing with some of the other posters is there are designers out there that don't "hate" games per se, but there are a lot of guys out there who aren't passionate about the game they're working on, or the genre they're stuck in, or used to be big into gaming and drifted out of it after spending time in the industry.

I've seen it more than I expected - I work at a small shop and we're all pretty passionate about our product, but we also do some contract work to pay bills. One of the first jobs I did for another studio really stunned me because of the general apathy about the game they were shipping. I got brought in late in the project to help them with some network code and overhead stuff like, "Hey, we should think about playing this online once it comes out" in a manner that suggested they hadn't really even considered playing their own title until just then, like some kind of novelty.

It just felt really alien to me, but I can see how you'd get that way if you had to work on a bunch of projects you weren't happy with or really invested in. The downside being that if you're not very invested in your game, it's just a job, you might be a good designer but you just won't have the insight or desire to make the same caliber game someone who digs in and plays the shit out of their own title.

A good friend of mine works at a larger studio and feels like they're really held back by 9-5'ers who aren't really gamers (albeit those guys aren't necessarily designers, as Curt pointed out) or who just want to follow some formula for more sales (see: most studios' design docs for a 3rd person shooter these days - add cover, over the shoulder cam, perks system +1 misc "unique" feature, sell!) instead of taking the role of the end-user and seeing what works and doesn't just playing through it.

I think the key is that games made by these people, we know about, and that's not necessarily a good thing.

Does EVERYONE at Blizzard love WOW? I HIGHLY doubt it. Hell I bet many don't play. But the people running the show, the big boys and girls, will talk your ear off about the game and their love of it.

It's cool to talk to people, hell people's secretary's, that talk about getting to 80, getting an epic purple.

Their love for the game shows in ways gamers see, touch and feel. That's the win you want.

[Mannorai]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

It's cool to talk to people, hell people's secretary's, that talk about getting to 80, getting an epic purple.

Their love for the game shows in ways gamers see, touch and feel. That's the win you want.

You want the players of your game to talk about getting max level and epic loot? Please tell me those are not the first two things you thought about.

[Tyen]

Originally Posted by Mannorai

You want the players of your game to talk about getting max level and epic loot? Please tell me those are not the first two things you thought about.

The road you travel to get to that point is definitely the bulk of adventuring, I don't disagree.

But seeing the fruits of your labor is something you will talk about and be proud of more so than the actual adventure.

It's obvious those aren't the two things he thought about off the bat, but it is most certainly the first 2 things that you feel first. It puts everything into perspective and allows you to have confidence in boasting about a game's quality and character.

[Azrayne]

Originally Posted by Torvon

It's going to take World of Starcraft to prove to developers that a sci-fi genre could make it big in the MMORPG world. Once it comes out, then you'll see plenty of clones.

I hate that you're 100% correct.

Hopefully 38s will at least try a slightly more original take on fantasy. I'm tired of settings that are basically interchangeable except for the names.

[Greyform]

Originally Posted by Mannorai

You want the players of your game to talk about getting max level and epic loot? Please tell me those are not the first two things you thought about.

I think he's saying he wants people to talk about the fun they're having in his game regardless of what that fun is.. But yeah, raiding, max level, sweet loot, those are fun things I enjoy in a game.

A cool zone, or fun dungeon crawl, a first kill on a boss mob you're guild has been working hard on is cool too.

There are a lot of things that make a game fun, he was just giving an example of a couple of them.

[Flight]

Originally Posted by Mannorai

You want the players of your game to talk about getting max level and epic loot? Please tell me those are not the first two things you thought about.

The problem with SoE for many years was that was all they thought about. Thats why EQ sucked for a number of expansions.

Blizzard won the internet by making the experience leading to, and alongside, that more engaging and fun that it had been in any previous MMO. After four years my favorite memory in WoW is still the first hour in the Dorf starter area, not my leetest item or being first to max lvl on my server at launch.

Originally Posted by Ngruk

'Noozer posted a link to an article that was an interesting read. Given how much we have talked in here about how hard it is to make games, I thought some might be interested in reading it.

Interesting read, but it misses out asking yourself, and others, 'What if ?' and preparing for eventualities 1,000 times a day.