Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[column]

Curt I wouldn't even try a MMO in this market, the best you can do is hope Sony buys it from you so you can break even.

[Nanaki Ikanan]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

...That, and I also feel as if we truly are entering a period of time that sees players playing a game more for the fact that it's where their guild or friends 'hang out' every bit as much as it being a good game. True? False? Sort of?

Another thing that i think makes games less about guildies and friends and more about self-accomplishments is the fact that a lot of games are catering to the solo crowd. Now, I like soloing, it's great to be able to accomplish things without waiting for other players. It's so nice to be able to get to max level in World of Warcraft all by myself.

But the downside is, it's very isolating. Instances and Soloing really isolate the player, and keep these strong bonds between guildies and players from forming. I remember I was still friends with people in Everquest 1 even though I only grouped with them a few times from level 5-15ish. So many people to meet in instances, in groups, just helping each other out. It's that isolation that kills a lot of the friendships in these games as well.

I know that in World of Warcraft, if my guild falls apart or all my friends quit (except a few real life friends) I just keep playing and find more people to play with. I'm not saying soloable content or instancing is a bad thing, I think it's awesome, but I just see this lack of friendship and strong bonds between players as a side-effect.

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by column

Curt I wouldn't even try a MMO in this market, the best you can do is hope Sony buys it from you so you can break even.

Why? That makes zero sense. What do you mean by 'this market'? The MMO world is still years from maturing, and mature it might still be very similar to what it is today, but in my opinion it still has a long way to go.

Under that philosophy people should have stopped trying to make sci-fi movies after Star Wars? Or stop making Fantasy movies after Excalibur?

People rarely remember who does things first, but everyone remembers who does it best don't they?

[Northerner]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Under that philosophy people should have stopped trying to make sci-fi movies after Star Wars?

Well, I can think of one guy that should have stopped after Star Wars (or at least after the original trilogy)...

[Draegan]

I think he was joking.

[findar]

depends how good the underlying fun factor is. if the game is fun but something comes up that makes me wanna take a break, sure ill come back if its fixed. if its not that fun in the firstplace, and i quit after a culmination of shitfest, no im not gunna end up returning.

friend factor will mitigate the suckage of gameplay to a point. you can only play maplestory with friends so long before you realize how much you hate korea.

[column]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Why? That makes zero sense. What do you mean by 'this market'? The MMO world is still years from maturing, and mature it might still be very similar to what it is today, but in my opinion it still has a long way to go.

Under that philosophy people should have stopped trying to make sci-fi movies after Star Wars? Or stop making Fantasy movies after Excalibur?

People rarely remember who does things first, but everyone remembers who does it best don't they?

Curt you don't even have one AAA title under your gaming company,and you want to jump into the hardest genre in gaming history. Even Lucas put out THX and American graffiti before starwars....( see wut I did thar)

You need an IP to even compete,and all the popular IP's are gone now and failed..,or will fail in the future (Aoc,War)


Everquest was a total fluke. It just came at the right time. I wouldn't think about putting a MMO out until the veil of WoW has been lifted. Its cool to try new things ,but you need to have a workable plan..

If it was me I would at least try out the regular game market first and then build up to something like MMO.

Just remember all the PR in the world will not save you from this board, if your game is in beta and even hints of sucking this board will tear you a new asshole ( have we forgotten Vanguard??)

[James]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Under that philosophy people should have stopped trying to make sci-fi movies after Star Wars? Or stop making Fantasy movies after Excalibur?

People rarely remember who does things first, but everyone remembers who does it best don't they?

Ok but you have to agree you can't get much better than a cracked out Merlin going apeshit on Morgana, or a long alcoholic Arthur throwing Excalibur down between his former best man and his wife who really shouldn't have been expected to remain faithful to a dude we can only assume was limp at best for the greater part of 10 years or so. That movie was so awesome.

Sure, everyone remembers who does it best, but the people who do it the best typically know who does it first, if you catch my drift. That said, I quit WoW shortly after release (1.3?ish) because everything in the game at that point had been beaten, and playing a warrior FUCKING SUCKED BALLS. I came back later after they fixed many of the issues and have found it quite enjoyable (except for the period from BC's release to 2.2 or so where it seems like they COMPLETELY FUCKING FORGOT everything they did in 1.x to make the game better). I also quit EverQuest in Luclin and came back for PoP's release through to WoW beta.

I did not go back to Anarchy Online after their aborted ass launch, I did not go back to Asheron's Call after spending 3 minutes in the game and realizing I'd rather suck off a horse than play that piece of shit, I did not go back to DAoC after getting up to level 40 or so.


EDIT: Also, both WoW and EverQuest had two of the absolute worst launches in MMO history save for MAYBE Anarchy Online (maybe), but have been the front runners of the genre for the greater part of a decade now. EverQuest, in particular, didn't start picking up momentum until Christmas 1999 as I recall, and even then the game only steadily grew until WoW's release. I'm not sure if you were around for EQ's launch or not, but I was, and it fucking sucked. It was literally unplayable across all servers for damn near a week. Granted, it wasn't really EQ's fault, but still. I don't think I got as frustrated with AO's launch as I did with EQ's.

[column]

EQ definitely had the worst launch. I must of read the Everquest strat guide like 10 times while I waited to play that game LULZ..

[Blitzspear]

[quote=column;1033688] You need an IP to even compete,and all the popular IP's are gone now and failed..,or will fail in the future (Aoc,War)[quote]

You really think a company that has the services of Todd McFarlane, and R. A. Salvatore at their disposal is going to struggle in creating an engaging intellectual property worthy of an MMO? Seriously, have you read some of the crap that goes into this genre of games?

Most IP’s that have been made to fit into an MMO setting usually upset the hardcore fan base more than they attract from it. At least with this MMO, they have the name of two creative talents to draw on, who have a solid fan base in their respective fields, and they no set expectations to ruin which usually happens with the bastardisation of an established IP.

Plus, that little green squig is awesome, how can they possibly fail after that?

[Draegan]

You guys should of easily picked up from this thread how 38S plans to establish their IP.

[column]

[quote=Blitzspear;1033806][quote=column;1033688] You need an IP to even compete,and all the popular IP's are gone now and failed..,or will fail in the future (Aoc,War)

You really think a company that has the services of Todd McFarlane, and R. A. Salvatore at their disposal is going to struggle in creating an engaging intellectual property worthy of an MMO? Seriously, have you read some of the crap that goes into this genre of games?

IMHO Salvatore and Mcfarlane do not sound like a good pairing to me,but thats beyond the point...


The point would be that your company itself can be the IP if the games you make are incredible..Green Monster games doesn't even have that.
Lets be honest the only thing going for this company right now is that it has a sports celebrity backing it. Mcfarlane and Salvatore are not going to get you on the news..

Salvatore was involved with EQ2 and that turned out not so good. Mcfarlane was doing the redesigns for UO,and that game didn't even make it out of the gate.

You need to walk before you run. Green Monster should probly try to get at least one regular game out to the public before they start on this risky venture.

[column]

Originally Posted by Draegan

You guys should of easily picked up from this thread how 38S plans to establish their IP.

How do they plan to establish there IP? If its not through hit games,they might as well give up.

Curts name will only take him so far,eventually he will have to show something.

I do wish him the best of luck tho, I would love to eat my words and they make the greatest game ever.

[Bankok]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

I mention this because I have always believed you really only have one shot to corral that initial huge launch audience. Or grab a significant and vocal group that expands your customer base themselves.

It's not rocket science and I am not trying to overthink but as I look around the MMO space I can't think of a game that didn't do well at launch, and then grew at some point later to become a popular MMO.

That, and I also feel as if we truly are entering a period of time that sees players playing a game more for the fact that it's where their guild or friends 'hang out' every bit as much as it being a good game. True? False? Sort of?

I think you are right in your assessment, in fact I would wager when you talk about your "one shot" to grab that audience, people make up their minds within a couple hours of playing. What WoW did brilliantly, and others since have followed is make it easy on a player right from the beginning. "Hey there is a guy with an exclamation mark, I should talk to him." I think the most amazing thing about WoW was that in most respects it lived up to its hype, no other release has really done that.

The only game I can think of that didn't really kick ass coming out of the gates and had it's subscriptions substantially increase is EVE and perhaps EQ2 (not sure where that is on subs now compared to launch)

Between EQ and WoW, there is only one game I can think of, and if I'm wrong I'm sure I'll be corrected, that released smoothly and for the first year or two gained subs, and that was DAOC. Since WoW/EQ2, I think Guild Wars and LOTRO are the only two that have been released stable and to no shock, they've kept a good deal of their subs.

[Ngruk]

[quote=column;1033839][quote=Blitzspear;1033806]

Originally Posted by column

IMHO Salvatore and Mcfarlane do not sound like a good pairing to me,but thats beyond the point...

How do they plan to establish there IP? If its not through hit games,they might as well give up.

Huh? These two guys have spent 25+ years each doing nothing but building from original IP they created. It's what they do, and have done, forever. Have they worked on other stuff, sure, have they done stuff judged on both ends of the spectrum? What great artist hasn't? Bottom line is I am pretty comfortable in backing both of their abilities to help build out an original IP into something crossing all lines of media from a presentation standpoint.

As to the second point I am not sure that's a well thought out statement.