Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Moontayle]

^ That sort of sums it up when it comes to Fantasy MMOs.

I actually think a system like EVE would be awesome for a fantasy MMO. You gain skills over time and you can skill up in anything available. Your character has 'slots' where you stick skills. Like in the armor slot you can throw in your 'Heavy Armor' skill and you can now wear plate. There's slots for weapon skills and abilities/spells. Restrictions would be in place so a heavy tank couldn't toss a fireball at you, i.e. in the description of the spell it would state something like "While wearing plate armor, spell cast time is increased by 300% and spell damage is reduced by 75%."

It would be tricky but it could be done with a bit of finesse. You can even keep the 'raid game' intact, just balance the item rewards with a certain 'skill point' threshhold. Like an Onyxia encounter would offer rewards pertinent to a person with 2 months of skills trained, while Naxx would equate to something on the order of a whole year.

[Zuuljin]

Super Mario MMORPG or Earthbound MMORPG. That would kickass.

[Cybsled]

Come on man. 93.5% of the MMOG subscribers in the world play Fantasy MMO's. Why would GMG, if it intends to change the landscape of the MMO world in a business sense, and product sense, not shoot for that market?

It's good to get in on that piece of the pie (fantasy mmo), but in many ways its trickier to get noticed there in this WoW-dominated age. You either need a solid piece of IP (which will sell based on the IP alone), you need some big names (which you have), or you need some really awesome mechanics/engine/setting that stand apart from the other titles in the genre. The big names part can be tricky as well, since people will have preconcieved expectations (in GMG's case: Drow Rangers, Demons, and Bloody Socks).

Numbers 1 and 2 will generally aid initial sales (generally #1 more then #2), while #3 will aid long term growth (see: Eve). Obviously if you can combine one of the first two with the 3rd, then you've got yourself a killer app in the making. Of course the rub is trying to get #3.

For instance, part of the problem with Vanguard (in my eyes anyways) is it reminds me of EQ2 a little too much. While it does have some features that are nifty, upon initial inspection it seems somewhat generic fantasy. Nothing truely stands out, unlike Conan which immediately hits you with "unique" features and thus catches your eye (such as the decapitation happy M rating, mounted combat, and casters who will go insane and start slaughtering everyone).

Now while I know Salvatore and yourself are big EQ fans, I think you need to try to distance yourself from trying to make "EQ done GMG style" which is what many fantasy MMOs can find themselves mired in. And one surefire way of doing this is to try to exploit different settings rather then the tired and true "high fantasy mmo". And if you did decide to do fantasy, go for something that hasnt been explored too much...like a Planescape: Torment type setting or something along the lines of Arcanum (which was basically a D&D setting that was experiencing the industrial revolution). The Forgotten Realms/Tolkien/EQ-type settings have been done to death and are probably a surefire way to not get noticed

[Rezz]

Fantasy is all well and good, but like Cyb said, High Fantasy is hard to innovate in and be noticably different while still maintaining the feel. A way to possibly approach this would be to take the key elements of the high fantasy genre and skew them a bit. Elves being universally evil and your standard goblin chud type mobs, gnomes being way less insane and more prone to getting drunk in taverns, dwarves who sail the seas as opposed to working in mines. At the same time, however, you risk alienating all those kids who just want to play an elf with a bow and name themselves Legolas. Fine line to walk imo.

[Ngruk]

Innovation and differentiation are concerns only where lack of creative genius is involved. I am very very confident that is not the case here.

Obviously at this stage from my end, it's all talk, and while talking is a skill some would argue I do too well, I will do my best to not overextend myself, or the people in GMG.

But as far as being different, and cutting edge, I think the fact that most, if not all of the people so far involved, know MMOs or are hardcore players. We know what's out there, we know what's not.

[Cybsled]

Innovation and differentiation are concerns only where lack of creative genius is involved.

That is true, but there is a large leap between generating ideas and actually implementing them in a workable fashion. An idea is like clearing the land for a house that you have envisioned. The tricky part is getting all those programmers, developers, and artists to build the house you had planned and make that house work properly

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Cybsled

That is true, but there is a large leap between generating ideas and actually implementing them in a workable fashion. An idea is like clearing the land for a house that you have envisioned. The tricky part is getting all those programmers, developers, and artists to build the house you had planned and make that house work properly

It's not a tricky part if everyone in the company knows from day 1 that is a goal. Thinking outside the box is a must and doing so within the confines of designing a game is a skill needed to be part of this.

I am not trying to make it sound easy, because I know it is not. But when you look around you can see so much that is not out there.

I also understand that there are alot of ideas and concepts that are not original to us, they just haven't been done for one reason or another. Some of those reasons are incredibly stupid and simple, while others have firm technical reasoning behind them being omitted.

So far what's gone on has been incredible and exciting, and with the first GMG employees arriving in office this week it's only getting more nerve wracking, exhilarating and fun at a frantic pace.

[Duppin]

While I have a lot of faith in the team you've assembled, I'm just not sure that there's much left unexplored in the high fantasy gamespace.

Even before MMORPGs came around, we had countless single-player games all in that same space as well. It's just tapped out.

If that's the direction you're taking your project in, I hope you're able to prove me wrong. But the proof will be in the pudding.

[Ngruk]

Originally Posted by Duppin

But the proof will be in the pudding.

Isn't it always?

[Kildace]

While it's true that most MMO players are currently playing a high fantasy MMO and therefore that developping one is a sure-fire way of attracting a lot of people, I still am convinced that it would be a 100 times easier to build hype on a MMO that distances itself from that setting. Plus, you have to ask yourself another question : out of those 93.5% people, how many are playing a high fantasy game by default because, beside EVE every decent MMO that has been released in the past 5 years was high fantasy, and how many would be willing, hell, eager to jump ship if a *well engineered* different MMO came along?
I know I would.

Edit: I'm not trying to discourage you or anything, I realize that the design doc for your game is probably in the making and that the high fantasy stuff is already set in stone. This post is more like a plea to devs everywhere: please release something different and good, thanks.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Isn't it always?

No doubt. The MMO industry is littered with the corpses of shadowbanes and Asheron Call 2's. How far away is any kind of announcement on the title or genre ? Any answer of "More on this soon" and McQuaid might sue for infringing on Sigil's trademark :P

[Cybsled]

Initial interest in SWG showed that a sci-fi MMO is indeed viable...what killed that interest and momentum was horrible design, lag, and bugs.

I can almost guarantee you that if Blizzard released World of Starcraft instead of Warcraft, it would have done about the same in terms of success.

I think there is alot of interest in the non-fantasy genres, it just has to be done right. And even if you stay in fantasy, there are many options for that as well. You could employ a FF7/8/10 "sci-fi fantasy" setting, you could employ a heavy steampunk setting, you could employ an "evil" fantasy setting. Anything but the vanilla fantasy trappings you see all too often. WoW's fantasy setting alone isnt a high fantasy setting...its like part fantasy, part steampunk, with a dash of sci-fi. I'd rather have the setting of Chrono Trigger then Ultima 3.

[LISeru]

How about an Ender's Game MMO?

[Zawicki]

Originally Posted by Duppin

A baseball MMO would be really strange and probably not that much fun.

I think the market for non-fantasy games in the MMO market is wildly underestimated. 93.5% percent of the MMOG subscribers play fantasy MMOs because that's where the best made games currently are. The fantasy theme probably helps to a certainly extent, but people will go where the good games are.

Look at (to pull an example from RTSes) Starcraft. It's one of the most popular games ever, and it's not based in a fantasy world. People like it because it's a well-made game.

Pretty much every non-fantasy MMO game so far has either been a deeply flawed game, or designed to appeal to a certain very specific niche.

Games I'd put in the former category:
-Anarchy Online (turned out to be better later on but had an abysmal launch)
-Earth and Beyond (had an abysmal launch AND never ended up being a good game)
-Neocron (see above)

Games I'd put in the latter category:
-EvE Online (designed for hardcore PvPers and/or people who want a sandbox-style world with no real established objectives)
-Planetside (MMOFPS/squad combat in an MMO setting)

Frankly (and this isn't a dig at you specifically, more the game publishers in general) I think we keep getting all of these high fantasy games because it's relatively "safe". I'd like to see someone who is well-funded and who wants to push the envelope really do something innovative.

There isn't much left to innovate in high fantasy. As an example, let's compare WoW classes with their EQ "equivalents":

-Warrior: Warrior
-Rogue: Rogue
-Druid: Druid (this is a bit specious because the playstyles do differ somewhat)
-Shaman: Shaman (see above)
-Warlock: basically a Necromancer with some additional toys
-Mage: Wizard
-Hunter: Ranger
-Priest: Cleric
-Paladin: Paladin

Yes, you can tear the above bit apart somewhat because the classes do play differently. I acknowledge this. My point is more about there only being so many different archetypes for fantasy classes, and stylistic differences are all that are left to do.

edit: I apparently fell in love with the word "genre".

While I agree with you on the class aspect, there are only so many different archetypes. Why not make a game that breaks out of the Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings mold and create something new? I personally would love to see something other than a warrior/healer/debuff the enemy/damage setup that we have in the MMO realm today.

Originally Posted by LISeru

How about an Ender's Game MMO?

While I LOVE the Ender series, and I am a fan of Orson Scott Card's writing overall... He would never allow a MMO based upon Ender's world...or I very seriously doubt it.(money can talk loud enough sometimes to pursue decisions that people wouldn't normally make)

Done right an Ender MMO is something I would love to see.

[Tyen]

Fallout MMO please