Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Tyen]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

Hey I figured some random joe dev started a thread asking what we wanted to see in an MMO but right here we have a known quantity in a guy that actually has told us who he is, has a company, and is actively creating a product...might as well put down our thoughts somewhere they might be useful

Agreed.

[Aphextwin]

Commenting of some posts above.

I have seen cut-scenes used in Guild Wars. I don't think I would want to see them all the time but rather for certain types of quests, group, epic that sort of thing.

Retro-kill idea is interesting, I can't tell you how many times I have killed mobs while looking for items or something else to later stumble upon an NPC that has a quest for those same mobs.

I admit, I do like unexpected quests that drop off mobs.

While we are on the subject of quests, I like the EQII quest log and the functionality it brings compared to some others I have used.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by FoghornDeadhorn

Any quest that requires some convoluted entry is garbage past the first discovery, as all that will happen is people find out about it on the web and do the do-re-mi to get the quest, probably then looking up the next convoluted quest. There are realities associated with how WoW presents its quest content, and those realities have a great track record to look back on.

Hey this is where a believable system of NPCs having real lives in the game world comes in...just because an NPC wants you to kill another NPC does that mean this NPC will be at the same location 24/7? Does he/it not go home? Is he eating and distracted or is he just sitting in the same spot to be thotbotted and defeated in 5 minutes?

The realities associated with how WoW presents it quest content are the realities of today, not the future. I say it can be done better, and you better damn well do it better if you expect to compete with the big boys.

[Draegan]

I think Oblivion did Mob AI scripting like that. However I have no idea what kind of constraints or load that would put on a server.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Draegan

I think Oblivion did Mob AI scripting like that. However I have no idea what kind of constraints or load that would put on a server.

Have a separate server in each cluster solely for mob AI. Heck computers have come so far in the past 5 years...quad core those suckers out and go to town.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

Have a separate server in each cluster solely for mob AI. Heck computers have come so far in the past 5 years...quad core those suckers out and go to town.

LOL, really not trying to be rude here.. but you just don't have a clue what it takes to make these things tick. Trust me, I was once like you until I started to see some of the actual behind the scenes junk and no, it's nothing like a NWN mod that is so cool, why not do that in an MMO!

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

LOL, really not trying to be rude here.. but you just don't have a clue what it takes to make these things tick. Trust me, I was once like you until I started to see some of the actual behind the scenes junk and no, it's nothing like a NWN mod that is so cool, why not do that in an MMO!

you have shown no ability whatsoever to think outside of the box. Every single theory craft thread you shoot down every idea everyone has as not possible.

I am 100% positive if I had laid out the Wii design stuff before it was announced you would have laughed at me and said impossible. I am not even trying to be rude or troll here I am 100% serious.

Most everything posted in all of these threads is very possible NOW let alone in 3-4 years when curt's game ships. Just because it may not be the most cost effective or easiest way does not deem it impossible.

ANYTHING done in a single player game can be done in a MMOG you just have to think outside of the box and change the method of delivery, and of course have the funds and talent to do it. Instead of pointing out how everything is wrong and impossible, how about trying to come up with ideas and ways to make them possible.

in short stop being so damn negative all the time, especially when you are usually wrong or base everything on your personal opinions. Really stop living in the past and trying to tell everyone the limits of everything, look to the future.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

LOL, really not trying to be rude here.. but you just don't have a clue what it takes to make these things tick. Trust me, I was once like you until I started to see some of the actual behind the scenes junk and no, it's nothing like a NWN mod that is so cool, why not do that in an MMO!

You are just quite simply wrong in this case, not only do I program, but have been using computers since probably before you were in diapers.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

You are just quite simply wrong in this case, not only do I program, but have been using computers since probably before you were in diapers.

We can talk about being babies all you want, but ths statement of 'slap mob AI on its on quad-core server' plainly says you do not know what you are talking about. AI is not a limiting factor at this point. In fact it would be no problem for game makers to make AI so good that it is impossible to beat. But you know what? Impossible isn't fun. It gets old quick and that isn't a recipe for success when dealing with a recurring subscription based service as your primary income.

P.S. I vote 'think outside the box' be removed as a usable phrase alongside McDonalds, Britteny Spears and AOL analogies.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

We can talk about being babies all you want, but ths statement of 'slap mob AI on its on quad-core server' plainly says you do not know what you are talking about. AI is not a limiting factor at this point. In fact it would be no problem for game makers to make AI so good that it is impossible to beat. But you know what? Impossible isn't fun. It gets old quick and that isn't a recipe for success when dealing with a recurring subscription based service as your primary income.

P.S. I vote 'think outside the box' be removed as a usable phrase alongside McDonalds, Britteny Spears and AOL analogies.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to start...AI is not a limiting factor at this point? /ignore.

[Draegan]

AI is not the limiting factor. You can script events and give mobs a subset of scripts to run at any given time. That's there. It's all about dev time and the tech support behind it. Do you want to spend hours, days and weeks scripting out a mob going to the grocery store and then cooking dinner sleeping then going back to work? Then do this 1000x times for everyone.

Do you really want to wait to repair your gear while the NPC's sleep?

I second the motion "think outside the box" be removed from any serious discussion.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Draegan

I second the motion "think outside the box" be removed from any serious discussion.

Along with "next-gen" and "revolutionary", please.

Seriously, though. I don't know that I would advocate an entire life-cycle for NPCs because of the obvious, but having them have some sort of variation in behavior, and sometimes take initiative in communicating with the player, would be a pleasant change.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Bongk

. . .
I mean really is there a single person besides 2bit who has not turned of quest text scrolling yet? I know you will argue this 2bit also because it is how you are. But why are we even reading quest text, shouldnt this shit be voice overs by now?

Well that depends where in the game you are at now. I certainly read all the quest texts when I did and still do them for the first time. I pretty much stopped on alt 2+, but at that point I have a different agenda for those alts, with questing being more a thing of speeding leveling and making some coin.

As an edit, I was so happy when I discovered the auto scroll button on WOW quest texts. Can't tell you how many times I died reading them as they were slowly scrolling.

[Lonin]

Several things:

Originally Posted by Ngruk

I'd ask this though. If Tolkien had written the story for a game, and you knew that going in, and you had a year or two lead in to the world from a story standpoint, would you read the quests?

This absolutely screams that there will be a new novel series by R.A. that ties into the game before it releases, and carries on with it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but after that comment, I'd be willing to bet on it. As for the question posed, I think virtually everyone would agree that they would read the quest text if it advanced the story in some way, or gave extra insight into the characters. The task for 38 Studios and R.A. is to create a coherent story that players do get invested in. That's how things like alternate reality games work, get people invested in a story (Lost for example), then throw minor hints and plot twists at them through otherwise generic games and puzzles and people eat that stuff up.

Originally Posted by Ngruk

You spend millions of dollars creating content, you want players to see and live in that content, you have to give them reasons to be in that content.

You also need ways to 'show them around' beyond the even worse than Fed-Ex quest, the dreaded TOUR GUIDE quest!

I'll agree that people need a reason to explore the world, but I think quests are an overused way of doing it. How about creating a world that inherently creates an urge to travel and explore, this is a programmed instinct in humans anyway, you just have to tap into it. Like you mentioned, exploration XP is one good, albeit artificial, way of doing this. Besides that, make the world dynamic, immersive, engaging and most of all, mysterious. I believe one of the biggest things that hurts todays MMOs is the lack of mystery surrounding the game world. I realize it's difficult with todays players completely dissecting game files and information sites popping up everywhere, but if you can keep certain things under wraps it would go a long way to tapping into peoples' instinct to explore and be the "first" to find something.

Finally, I'd like to support the mechanic of quests seeking you out, rather than the other way around. It adds a lot to the immersion and engagement factors of the game even if it is only a superficial change. Combine this mechanic with the end-loaded questing that WAR does and it would drastically alleviate a lot of the kill quest annoyances.

[OneofOne]

If you want me to actually spend the time to read the quests your writing team has spent the time writing, make it interesting or integral that I do so. Having a head writer shaping the entire story of your world gives you an opportunity other games may not have had. One reason I loved the epic quests in EQ (not necessarily their rare as hell drop implementation - hi2u SSoC) was they had a good story and and were multi-stepped.

If your world has a focus, a REAL story, other than just "Look at our world, we have Wizards and Rangers and Warriors and you can kill goblins and orcs and rats, rats, rats!" the potential for twining your quests together is great. Why would *evil* races and *good* races work together? What if something strong enough to threaten them both came along? I was reading about a game previously that had some sort of undead blight that players would have to perpectually keep at bay. I loved the idea as something that gave the players of the world a focus on, a persistant interactive background story.

Sure you'll still have your noobie quests like "thin the goblin population of the area" or "get 20 bear meat so Joebob the butcher can keep up with demand". But start giving us quests at early levels that lead into medium/high level quests where we learn about the world's leading NPCs and about a real menance that actually effects the world. People are too quick to dismiss this kind of story as only possible in single player games, but most of the games we've played have done this to a small extent. What I'm saying it make it a gamewide theme. I never played LotR, but they surely were in the best position to do this. You guys might not be going for any sort of gamewide story - maybe you just want to make a Fantasy sandbox - but that's what I'd like to see.

PS I'm not a Salvatore fan myself either, but free of his TSR/WoTC contraints, I'm curious to see what he can do.