Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Stop it ladies. Get back on topic. We are talking about some cool stuff here, questing and what's cool and what isn't.

I think we can all agree on the 'don't send me to the same guy 12 times to go to the same spot to kill the same mobs' sucks.

I'd ask this though. If Tolkien had written the story for a game, and you knew that going in, and you had a year or two lead in to the world from a story standpoint, would you read the quests?

For me, it's not so much "Do I want to", but "Does gameplay allow me to".

I enjoy reading WoW's quest text but it's difficult to do so when the rest of your group has already mounted and started racing towards the quest target.

Most of the time, I take the quest and read it while I'm riding to my destination, else I don't get a chance to read it at all.

I think cut scenes, in the style that FFXI presented them, are a fantastic way to show key parts of a storyline. That said, even cut scenes are skipped, and you end up with most of your group waiting on you.

I'm not sure if there's a good solution to allow for those who want to enjoy the story to do so, without hindering those that do not. I think that's the main issue.

[Dennadyne]

Originally Posted by Bongk

*does his best 2bit impression* 9 million people disagree.

lol, that was pretty good.

[Tyen]

The only quest that ever meant to me in anygame and that I will never forget were epic quests.

Hell, the VP, and Sebilis keyquests beat the crap out of anygame.

It seems to me like every single game has a "shit ton" of delivery, protect the npc, kill 10 orcs, and visit the village quests.

Game mechanics are the ones always trying to be revolutionalized.

Why not figure out some revolutionary lore, quests, and raid content beforehand.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Stop it ladies. Get back on topic. We are talking about some cool stuff here, questing and what's cool and what isn't.

I think we can all agree on the 'don't send me to the same guy 12 times to go to the same spot to kill the same mobs' sucks.

I'd ask this though. If Tolkien had written the story for a game, and you knew that going in, and you had a year or two lead in to the world from a story standpoint, would you read the quests?

I still say you can do better than this...

Instead of having an NPC standing there waiting for you to see whats going on say your group is involved in a tavern brawl started by some rowdy drunks. You get arrested, the magistrate then comes to the cell and requires you to perform services for him. Why would there have to be a scroll box with quest text for this? If anything, this should be acted out by the NPC.

You want a living, breathing world? People should be confused on whether that NPC over there is another player character or a nefarious NPC, plotting against his king.

I'm of the belief that every quest should have an epic feel, they don't all need to start off that way, but they sure in the hell should end that way. No more, go over there and get me 12 bat wings, why??? I dunno, I didn't read it.

[Dennadyne]

Originally Posted by Ngruk

Stop it ladies. Get back on topic. We are talking about some cool stuff here, questing and what's cool and what isn't.

I think we can all agree on the 'don't send me to the same guy 12 times to go to the same spot to kill the same mobs' sucks.

I'd ask this though. If Tolkien had written the story for a game, and you knew that going in, and you had a year or two lead in to the world from a story standpoint, would you read the quests?

Hell yes. But I hope you just didn't equate R.A. to Tolkien

[Laerazi]

Originally Posted by Daezuel

I still say you can do better than this...

Instead of having an NPC standing there waiting for you to see whats going on say your group is involved in a tavern brawl started by some rowdy drunks. You get arrested, the magistrate then comes to the cell and requires you to perform services for him. Why would there have to be a scroll box with quest text for this? If anything, this should be acted out by the NPC.

You want a living, breathing world? People should be confused on whether that NPC over there is another player character or a nefarious NPC, plotting against his king.

I'm of the belief that every quest should have an epic feel, they don't all need to start off that way, but they sure in the hell should end that way. No more, go over there and get me 12 bat wings, why??? I dunno, I didn't read it.

It's nice to have epic quests, but the reality is that these large quests (and the example you mentioned) require way more scripting and manhours than a regular fetch/kill quest.

That said, I think the world would feel much more alive and meaningful if there were 100 epic multi-chain quests that each had a compelling story and cutscenes, instead of, say 3000 fetch/kill quests.

[Bongk]

biggest thing with cutscenes is make sure you cannot be attacked while watching them. This pissed me off to no end in FF that I was getting attacked while watching a cutscene.

How am I supposed to enjoy it and give it my attention when all I can think is shit I am dying there goes an hours EXP if I keep watching this.

[Draegan]

If you want a perfect example of quest hubs and progression please go ahead and do every quest in the WOW Draenei newbie area. They put together a story and lead you along the different areas at a perfect pace. I think there was a perfect mixtures of collection quests, miniboss kill quests, fedex quests, and storyarc quests. Never do you feel like grinding or are you bored the first or second time through. There is also a pretty damn cool scripted event that's pretty neat when you're all done.

Extremely well done.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Laerazi

It's nice to have epic quests, but the reality is that these large quests (and the example you mentioned) require way more scripting and manhours than a regular fetch/kill quest.

That said, I think the world would feel much more alive and meaningful if there were 100 epic multi-chain quests that each had a compelling story and cutscenes, instead of, say 3000 fetch/kill quests.

Ah but when you are designing your game from the ground up you put in the necessary scripting tools to make this sort of design easy. Cutscenes rendered by the engine, events triggered by location/quest progress/randomness.

Are we talking about a next gen, take the world by storm type of MMO, or are we talking about a rehash of whats been done in the past?

I'd frankly rather have a sandbox with zero quests instead of generic quest hub #15 and 20 npcs standing there for no plausible reason.

[Tyen]

Originally Posted by Draegan

I think there was a perfect mixtures of collection quests, miniboss kill quests, fedex quests, and storyarc quests.

Extremely well done.

It would be nice if it was more script and less collection, miniboss, fedex, etc.

Whether there is a good mixture its been done over and over and it drives me to boredom.

[Draegan]

If you want more script go play a singleplayer game. Seriously, there are limitations when playing in an environment with other players.

LOTRO did this all instances. The story quests were pretty awesome but they had catalogues and novels full of information to create this instanced storylines. So, unless R.A. is creating a whole story arc to base the game on, you won't get it. R.A. would have to write another series of books instead of lore and background history. He very well might do that. It would be pretty awesome to have books + MMO to be released at once, or books before the MMO then the game.

Ninja Edit:
Curt: Is this something you might want to look into? Have R.A. release a book or storyline or history stuff based on your MMO approximately 1 year to 6 months prior to Live? You could end up drumming of some good press. But then again, who knows what R.A. can do with his schedule.

However a storyline instance would be a cool feature to the game that you can update monthly and keep the end game storyline alive. It requires A LOT more dev time to create this consistently, so would you be content to see a new one every 3-6 months?

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Tyen

It would be nice if it was more script and less collection, miniboss, fedex, etc.

Whether there is a good mixture its been done over and over and it drives me to boredom.

They do serve their purposes, though. Miniboss for a combat challenge/drop; fed-ex as a transition to other places, collections for turn it, etc.

I agree though that if there's an area you don't want to skimp on, it's lore. Even some scripting tying the purpose and side/single quests and subplots together would be helpful.

That being said, even in LOTRO (and I liked their model for story "chapters" as well) there were still quests of those types.


I admit I haven't read the entire thread, but has there been any discussion about 38 Studios' plan/general ideas on crafting or any other spheres?

If you could integrate something like diplomacy into general interaction with NPC's, but not make it overly predictable (Oblivion), that would be win. Perhaps make the difficulty based on a player's faction range, and allow for other quests (epic/extensive) to be unlocked from certain NPCs based on their success.

Just a thought.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Draegan

If you want more script go play a singleplayer game. Seriously, there are limitations when playing in an environment with other players.

I had no instances on my nwn server and I used scripting and cut scenes everywhere I possibly could...now granted this was only for 50-60 people at any one time, but I was also only leading a team of 2-3 at any time (including myself) and spent money only on the hardware and bandwidth required to run it.

I simply disagree that you cannot heavily use scripting to make your world seem alive just because it is an MMO.

-edit- actually check that, when you created your character you were actually run through what I'd consider an instanced cut scene.

[Twobit Whore]

NWN is NOT an MMO.

Just because you can do something there doesn't mean it is doable on a much larger scale.

[UnchainedAcolyte]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

NWN is NOT an MMO.

Just because you can do something there doesn't mean it is doable on a much larger scale.

The limitations exist. The problem is, everyone keeps arguing against Fed-Ex, collection, # of kill quests, and want a more storyline-based/epic line.

Problem is, people get burned out or bored of working on the same line, don't have the time for a major step, etc. Not that I'm saying subplots and other options aren't available, but the other reason for those "miscellaneous" quests to exist is to give people something else to do, and especially in leveling (class or skill levels), a means to do it other than grinding.

Any suggestions for alternatives?