Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling) - Page 127

Fog · 09-17-2007, 09:11 AM

If they're using their cell phone to play, they are "in the game." Why does not using a keyboard and mouse stop it from being an MMO? How on earth can you say that using a PC is an "equalizer" when some people are running at 5 FPS, some people are running at 30 FPS, some people are using a G15 keyboard and some people are running three clients at once?

Twobit Whore · 09-17-2007, 09:18 AM

But are they playing? Can you do a dungeon crawl on a phone? If so, that would be quite amazing and probably worthy of a stand alone game itself.

If they are just bidding on an item in the AH while stuck in traffic, then that isn't really playing. Of course this is all using existing mechanics as reference and something new that incorporated this would likely use new mechanics.

I'd prefer to see eBay style bidding in an AH over cell-phone accessible bidding. Being able to set the max price you will pay and auto-bidding X + 1 so you don't have to sit in the AH would be nice.

Using a cell-phone to check game mail, see what you have won.. relist your own auctions if they expire.. that's fine. Dialing up at a red light and winning a bid 2 seconds before an auction closes is not.. just imo of course.

My justification for this remains the same. 2 people check an auction one morning.. one bids and leaves for work. The other bids right after and leaves for work. The first guy checks it while on the bus/subway/whatever and sees he got outbid and bids up. The second guy doesn't have that functionaility and loses. I don't think that is right. Now Mr. off-work today bids and gets it.. great. He was there and he got it. Right time-right place is a big component of online gaming and removing that entirely will remove just one more 'thrill' from the game.

Neric · 09-17-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draegan

All the freedom of EQ was from shitty coding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draegan

Your freedom is just broken mechanics Tad.

That's true, but once you find out you should honestly think about making it a feature instead of fixing it. Those EQ bugs turned out to be pretty good for the game after all.

Cadrid · 09-17-2007, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tad10

What? This doesn't make any sense. If the game ships with a cellphone interface to the AH and everyone knows about it -- what's the problem?

The cell phone interface is part of the game. The guy on the cell phone and the guy on his computer both interfacing with the AH are both "in the game".

As if the time investment portion of MMOs weren't bad enough for busy people, now they'd have to manage their in-game purchases throughout the day. By allowing people to place bids from their cellphones it makes a person with no responsibilities far more effective than a person who can't check up on a bidding war they're in every 30-60 minutes.

Furthermore, if the game allowed you to place bids on the AH from your phone there would be no reason for you to ever visit the AH on your PC/console. Why make the trip when you can just pop in on your mobile and do the same thing while saving time? Considering not everyone has a mobile device capable of web access it would be a very unfair and imbalanced mechanic.

Gaereth · 09-17-2007, 12:07 PM

Currently people with less responsibilities are far more effective in these games. Or, those that can spend more time are generally further ahead than those that can spend less.

If anything, this allows those folks that can't get to their computer to manage some of the in game situations easier. It actually increases the effectiveness of those that are situation limited while not really changing much for the no lifers.

fuffalo · 09-17-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadrid

As if the time investment portion of MMOs weren't bad enough for busy people, now they'd have to manage their in-game purchases throughout the day. By allowing people to place bids from their cellphones it makes a person with no responsibilities far more effective than a person who can't check up on a bidding war they're in every 30-60 minutes.

Furthermore, if the game allowed you to place bids on the AH from your phone there would be no reason for you to ever visit the AH on your PC/console. Why make the trip when you can just pop in on your mobile and do the same thing while saving time? Considering not everyone has a mobile device capable of web access it would be a very unfair and imbalanced mechanic.

Unless of course it was through a web interface, allowing you to do it from a pc or a phone...

Cadrid · 09-17-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuffalo

Unless of course it was through a web interface, allowing you to do it from a pc or a phone...

Again, we're back to people with no responsibilities having a huge advantage. Timmy the Schoolboy could get into a bidding war at the school library, but a parent chauffeuring their kids around, running errands, only able to play in the evenings would end up getting screwed over on a consistent basis. They're already at a disadvantage with their time constraints, why should more power be given to those ahead of the pack in the first place?

As long as these extras don't imbalance the game I'm all for them, but when certain people have their play negatively affected as a result the mechanic need to be called into question.

Gaereth · 09-17-2007, 02:09 PM

And again...Timmy can already spend more time with the game than a parent working full time. You are saying that it is NOT fair that some people have more time to spend with the game than others. This would somehow be new??

Those that can spend more time can get more done. Time is the coin of the realm in these games and whomever has more of it has more opportunities. Its nothing new and adding even more accessibility doesn't change it in any way. In fact, adding more accessibility might enable Bob the soccer dad a bit more time to do things in game than he had previously.

These games have been about time vs reward since the beginning. To say it is somehow a problem now is silly.

Twobit Whore · 09-17-2007, 02:25 PM

Honestly, does someone with 16 hours a day actually accomplish more in a game like WoW than someone who plays 4?

You can log on, raid and be done in 4 hours.. or you can log on, do some BGs and arenas and log out whenever. Playing more may get you some gold.. but do you need it? All you need is a few hours of daily quests or harvesting once a week to cover repairs and everything else doesn't matter.

Not to mention potential security issues with allowing people to affect the game with remote devices.

Fog · 09-17-2007, 02:41 PM

Well, I don't really get your side of this cell phone argument. If MMORPGs were ever a "fair playing field" in any sense they stopped being fair when anyone could buy characters and gold on ebay and pay for multiple accounts and better hardware. I don't think there are enough people playing MMOs who don't have cell phones to make it an issue of fairness.

Twobit Whore · 09-17-2007, 02:43 PM

Of course not every cell phone has web functions and not all of them are universally compatible. I can get onthe web, but it's not THE web, it's a built in browser thing that lets me check email and a couple of things. The downloadable games don't all work on every phone either so you have that issue as well..

And the buying characters/gold argument fails when it breaks the TOS.

Wodin · 09-17-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Honestly, does someone with 16 hours a day actually accomplish more in a game like WoW than someone who plays 4?

Err, yes. That gold you dismiss covers respecs, enchants, gems, all of which everyone needs, and consumables for raids which are still very expensive. Good luck affording that Mongoose enchant if all you do is log on, raid, and log off, and good luck getting a raid slot when you show up with suboptimal crap while doing progression raids. That's not even covering expensive consumables like Haste potions/absorb pots and the other stuff you need on progression.

Twobit Whore · 09-17-2007, 03:03 PM

And what % of players does that apply to?

And for that matter what % of players would use a cellphone interface for a game? Enough to make the investment worth it? Would enough people join your game (who wouldn't otherwise without that one feature) to cover the costs of developing and supporting it?

Cadrid · 09-17-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaereth

These games have been about time vs reward since the beginning. To say it is somehow a problem now is silly.

Go back and read my post again. I already acknowledged it's a long-time issue with MMOs. How does giving Timmy more power make any sense? That's my argument.

Fog · 09-17-2007, 03:22 PM

I don't understand how a cell phone interface would give unemployed powergamers or college kids a bigger advantage. Those guys can already sit at their computer 12 hours a day and adjust their prices. It seems to me like it's the opposite; now interested gamers who have a job can check their shit in a minute during a coffee break or in the car if they feel so inclined.

09-17-2007, 09:11 AM	#1891 (permalink)
Fog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,971 -1 Internets	If they're using their cell phone to play, they are "in the game." Why does not using a keyboard and mouse stop it from being an MMO? How on earth can you say that using a PC is an "equalizer" when some people are running at 5 FPS, some people are running at 30 FPS, some people are using a G15 keyboard and some people are running three clients at once? Last edited by Fog; 09-17-2007 at 09:14 AM..

09-17-2007, 09:18 AM	#1892 (permalink)
Twobit Whore Insert Quarter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,191 -14 Internets	But are they playing? Can you do a dungeon crawl on a phone? If so, that would be quite amazing and probably worthy of a stand alone game itself. If they are just bidding on an item in the AH while stuck in traffic, then that isn't really playing. Of course this is all using existing mechanics as reference and something new that incorporated this would likely use new mechanics. I'd prefer to see eBay style bidding in an AH over cell-phone accessible bidding. Being able to set the max price you will pay and auto-bidding X + 1 so you don't have to sit in the AH would be nice. Using a cell-phone to check game mail, see what you have won.. relist your own auctions if they expire.. that's fine. Dialing up at a red light and winning a bid 2 seconds before an auction closes is not.. just imo of course. My justification for this remains the same. 2 people check an auction one morning.. one bids and leaves for work. The other bids right after and leaves for work. The first guy checks it while on the bus/subway/whatever and sees he got outbid and bids up. The second guy doesn't have that functionaility and loses. I don't think that is right. Now Mr. off-work today bids and gets it.. great. He was there and he got it. Right time-right place is a big component of online gaming and removing that entirely will remove just one more 'thrill' from the game. Last edited by Twobit Whore; 09-17-2007 at 09:21 AM..

09-17-2007, 02:25 PM	#1899 (permalink)
Twobit Whore Insert Quarter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,191 -14 Internets	Honestly, does someone with 16 hours a day actually accomplish more in a game like WoW than someone who plays 4? You can log on, raid and be done in 4 hours.. or you can log on, do some BGs and arenas and log out whenever. Playing more may get you some gold.. but do you need it? All you need is a few hours of daily quests or harvesting once a week to cover repairs and everything else doesn't matter. Not to mention potential security issues with allowing people to affect the game with remote devices. Last edited by Twobit Whore; 09-17-2007 at 02:35 PM..

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09-17-2007, 12:07 PM	#1895 (permalink)
Gaereth Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 826 -4 Internets	Currently people with less responsibilities are far more effective in these games. Or, those that can spend more time are generally further ahead than those that can spend less. If anything, this allows those folks that can't get to their computer to manage some of the in game situations easier. It actually increases the effectiveness of those that are situation limited while not really changing much for the no lifers.

09-17-2007, 02:09 PM	#1898 (permalink)
Gaereth Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 826 -4 Internets	And again...Timmy can already spend more time with the game than a parent working full time. You are saying that it is NOT fair that some people have more time to spend with the game than others. This would somehow be new?? Those that can spend more time can get more done. Time is the coin of the realm in these games and whomever has more of it has more opportunities. Its nothing new and adding even more accessibility doesn't change it in any way. In fact, adding more accessibility might enable Bob the soccer dad a bit more time to do things in game than he had previously. These games have been about time vs reward since the beginning. To say it is somehow a problem now is silly.

09-17-2007, 02:41 PM	#1900 (permalink)
Fog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,971 -1 Internets	Well, I don't really get your side of this cell phone argument. If MMORPGs were ever a "fair playing field" in any sense they stopped being fair when anyone could buy characters and gold on ebay and pay for multiple accounts and better hardware. I don't think there are enough people playing MMOs who don't have cell phones to make it an issue of fairness.

09-17-2007, 02:43 PM	#1901 (permalink)
Twobit Whore Insert Quarter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,191 -14 Internets	Of course not every cell phone has web functions and not all of them are universally compatible. I can get onthe web, but it's not THE web, it's a built in browser thing that lets me check email and a couple of things. The downloadable games don't all work on every phone either so you have that issue as well.. And the buying characters/gold argument fails when it breaks the TOS.

09-17-2007, 03:03 PM	#1903 (permalink)
Twobit Whore Insert Quarter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,191 -14 Internets	And what % of players does that apply to? And for that matter what % of players would use a cellphone interface for a game? Enough to make the investment worth it? Would enough people join your game (who wouldn't otherwise without that one feature) to cover the costs of developing and supporting it?

09-17-2007, 03:22 PM	#1905 (permalink)
Fog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,971 -1 Internets	I don't understand how a cell phone interface would give unemployed powergamers or college kids a bigger advantage. Those guys can already sit at their computer 12 hours a day and adjust their prices. It seems to me like it's the opposite; now interested gamers who have a job can check their shit in a minute during a coffee break or in the car if they feel so inclined.