Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling)

[tad10]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

So are you saying that this:

Can only happen in the first scenario and not in the second?

That makes no sense.

Bullshit. It is far more fucking likely in the wait an hour for perfect group scenario than the first and you know it.

In any event this whole discussion is becoming retarded. A properly designed class system combined with decent level designs = no required classes for any 5/6-man content.

Going back to hybrid design. You need "a" healer -- doesn
t matter if it is tank/healer, healer/dps, healer/pet, healer/cc. You need "a" tank -- doesn't matter if it is tank/dps, tank/healer, tank/pet, tank/cc etc.

The advantage of an all Hybrid class system is that it is much, much fucking easier to fill up 'needed' class spots. PCs can fill multiple roles so you can get a workable group sooner and get the hell to the dungeon.

[Draegan]

Seriously Tad, it's the dumbest idea ever. If you can come up with the design docs for all those tank classes, with names and class defining rolls that make each class unique I'll eat my words.

But if you have a Tank CC and a Heal CC do both have the same CC abilities but different names? What about DPS CC and BUFF CC? What differentiates all the CC?

[tad10]

Any hybrid CC should be roughly equivalent CC ability. Same that any hybrid with Tank should be roughly equivalne tank abilty. Any hybrid with X should do X roughly as well as any other hybrid with X.

Class differentiate is accomplished by the unique combination of abilities. There is only one Tank/Healer class or one Tank/CC class. There is only one Healer/DPS class or Healer/CC class. This means that if a group is looking for Healing it can take any healer: Tank/Healer, Healer/DPS, Healer/CC, or etc. Same deal with tanks.

[Draegan]

That just a ton of classes all watered down and almost the same. Very bland.

[Cadrid]

Why not just make a game with only one class and skip all that fluff?

[Maxxius]

Personally I'd rather see the tri-class make a comeback. If you cant fill all your group needs that way then you never will. But please oh please Curt don't continue this "needed" healer/tank system because as for me I refuse to get involved in another game that forces me to waste half my playing time trying to find one just to do some content.

[Twobit Whore]

Hybrids have been the bastardized shitclasses of all MMOs to date, and the solution is to make ALL the classes into hybrids? Wow.. that's going to be a fucking winner there.

[Draegan]

If you want to create a large scale MMO that is based off of Fantasy and High End Game raiding all of which is strictly PVE you will need distinct class roles, that are well defined and unique or else it will fail.

I say we go back to old school Diku so when you log in all you see it:

Please choose a race:
[ Human Dwarf Elf Gnome ]

Please choose a class:
[ Warrior Mage Thief Cleric ]

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

Hybrids have been the bastardized shitclasses of all MMOs to date, and the solution is to make ALL the classes into hybrids? Wow.. that's going to be a fucking winner there.

Was a blast in DSO and Aol's NWN (shrugs). Plus I think the PVE aspect of these games are really secondary anyways.

[Draegan]

You're really gonna break out AOL NWN? Fuck I'll break out Shadow's of Yserbius on my 2400 baud modem on Sierra INN Network. You needed tanks and dps and healers. Thats the first MMO back in 1991.

[James]

You gotta admit, it's not every day you see a Shadows of Yserbius flame here. Props.

[Rezz]

Just out of curiousity, have you played any hybrid classes in MMOs Twobit? I'm not picking a fight, you just seem to vehemently hate them. I've played them in every game but wow (fuck having to be a healer hybrid of any kind) and I've certainly never come to the same conclusion you have.

[Maxxius]

Originally Posted by Draegan

You're really gonna break out AOL NWN? Fuck I'll break out Shadow's of Yserbius on my 2400 baud modem on Sierra INN Network. You needed tanks and dps and healers. Thats the first MMO back in 1991.

Oh please NWN had exactly what many want, a community (especially off the message boards), and truly skill based pvp. Yeah it was corney in graphics, but the pvp was the best, just will never be repeated. People were paying $300 monthly phone bills just to play it.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Rezz

Just out of curiousity, have you played any hybrid classes in MMOs Twobit? I'm not picking a fight, you just seem to vehemently hate them. I've played them in every game but wow (fuck having to be a healer hybrid of any kind) and I've certainly never come to the same conclusion you have.

Played them in several games, and I can't think of a single one that did a hybrid well. In the end they get pigeonholed into one basic function and if they can't do that as well as someone else they are like the fat retard on the playground.. last to be picked.

[Rezz]

Sks in EQ were as close to an omni class as the game presented. Puller, Tank, DPS in one. CC in a pinch and it wasn't the "best" at any of those, a true hybrid that brought a lot to the table in many situations, including raids. Also the various hybrid dps/healer combinations in FFXI were liked in many groups. Bards were also very powerful in EQ and FFXI. VG's DK was retardedly high DPS for a tank class, and it went about doing it's jobs very differently from other dps/tank classes. More often than not I was picked over the staple warrior class to tank. If you are talking about 100% endgame, these classes were also useful in that too (of course, VG had no endgame when I quit playing it, so that's a moot point.) and not just from a one-trick pony standpoint. If anything, the primary classes were more pigeonholed than the hybrids of those primaries.

Keep in mind, I am in no way advocating that the entire game be made up of hybrids, far from it. Of course you want your standardized "lolz I tank but nothing else" class, but that only really compliments a group that requires a full tank to function. A tank that puts out higher than normal dps will be killing things in certain group archetypes with less risk than the full tank would be.

The only "hybrid" class I can think of in all honesty that got the full shitcan of ass balance was the WoW paladin. If you aren't a holy paladin, you are wasting space for the most part. And you're there to heal. Very one-dimensional for a supposed hybrid class.