Heroes of Newerth

[Urlithani]

edit: backdooring: ninjarr beat me to it.

[Elerion]

Originally Posted by Ninajrr

Near the end of the match the game almost always boils down to a team 5v5 matchup. If a pushing team wins, they usually get a complete lane. Players like a second chance, so they want another 5v5 battle. Backdooring side-steps that, allowing 1 major conflict to finish two, or even three lanes.

What? If you enter a base with creeps through one lane, you are allowed to tear down any building in the base without that being "backdooring", so this doesn't make much sense.

I also think it used to be illegal in some major tourny's in DotA (for the aforementioned reasons) and it caught on as a respectful rule in public games. It was lated denounced publicly by a lot of tournament leaders but it has remained a respectful law ever since...

It was originally a rule in [TDA] games. Since TDA was an "official" channel and referenced in the map itself (loading screen and quest screen), people took it as official rules and it migrated into general use. At the time it was much more problematic because you could attack buildings out of order, and heroes like Furion could teleport into the base and kill raxes without ever touching another building.

It stayed as a rule in most major tourneys and leagues even after the addition of anti-backdoor changes like forced building kill order and glyph of protection. At that point it wasn't really necessary for game balance, but more so for game enjoyment. Some heroes like Anti-Mage/Magebane can cause games to go into a deadlock once farmed, by being a constant backdoor threat. The opposing team can't push with 5, because Anti-Mage will fuck up their base. If they try to port home, he will blink away long before they arrive. If they leave enough guys at home to defend against Anti-Mage (which would often require two, at least to land a kill), their push is probably outnumbered. On the other hand, Anti-Mage's team risks losing a team fight and consequently the game if they try to push. The result is a standoff that is very hard to break, and not very tournament friendly.

Personally I see why backdooring is detrimental to the game, but I've always hated player enforced rules. It only favors the assholes that don't give a shit. I support any game mechanic changes to stop it, but refuse to support the stupid "lol u cant do that" movement against it currently.

[Ninajrr]

Most people consider attacking a lane's barracks that doesn't have the creeps from that lane pushed back to be BDing.

[Elerion]

No, it's a pretty well established concept that you can do anything inside the base as long as you entered through a lane with creeps. That's how the tournament rules have always worked, iirc.

[Ninajrr]

The whole point is that it is a "pub rule", not a tournament rule, that most people abide by.

[Elerion]

Pubs got the rules from tournaments and leagues. Without tournaments and leagues to set the rules, pubs would never have gathered around them. To be honest, if the original Allstars versions didn't have "TDA Rules" printed on the quest screen, pubs probably wouldn't have adopted them. Pubs haven't adopted any of the other typical tournament rules like limitations on equal items on the team.

[Ninajrr]

Go into a public game and kill all three lanes from one push, then ask if it was BDing. Usually people think it is. it doesn't matter that much, but in my experience people consider that a BD.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Ninajrr

Go into a public game and kill all three lanes from one push, then ask if it was BDing. Usually people think it is. it doesn't matter that much, but in my experience people consider that a BD.

Random tards sometimes say it, but most of the people I've played with never considered that BDing or didn't bitch about it. It's only a BD if there's no creep around, but if the creeps are in the base, all your buildings are free to attack.

[c8fe]

Originally Posted by Ninajrr

Near the end of the match the game almost always boils down to a team 5v5 matchup. If a pushing team wins, they usually get a complete lane. Players like a second chance, so they want another 5v5 battle. Backdooring side-steps that, allowing 1 major conflict to finish two, or even three lanes.

I also think it used to be illegal in some major tourny's in DotA (for the aforementioned reasons) and it caught on as a respectful rule in public games. It was lated denounced publicly by a lot of tournament leaders but it has remained a respectful law ever since...

Backdooring was illegal because you could literally walk into the opposing teams base and kill their tree without even touching a barracks at one time. Since then backdooring has basically turned into the scapegoat of pub dota to describe anything that speeds a game up. If you lose a 5v5 battle so bad that the opposing team has the ability to take out all 6 barracks in your base, the game was already over and one team was just farming for e peen points. I'm sorry I don't enjoy playing in the games where we win a 5v5 battle then 3 of my teammates run off to the forest to go farm some more because only the lane with upgraded creeps is pushed enough to do anything.



As far as I'm concerned having played competitive dota and hon for quite a while there are no "rules" in dota/HoN, if you win the game doing anything save an exploit regardless of how assholish it is it's fair game.

[Menoman]

So..

i was in a game, and we killed 4 of 5 opposing team, so we decided to push their number 2 tower, but we had no creeps around and our Predator wont attack the tower, coz he says thats BDing.

We already took down tower 1 on bottom, we just wanted to drop tower 2, not even to their base towers yet.

There was like 2 others who said it was considered BDing.

To me this just seems like people are being retarded about calling stuff BDing and taking it too far, I can understand why people don't like BDing, I don't personally agree coz it is part of the game and not that difficult to counter.

But when did it become common for people to 'wahh BD, when all you are doing is killing a tower and there happens to be no creeps there?'

[Ashes Emberblade]

My advice would be to play a game that doesn't have a community composed entirely of retarded assholes.

[Aamina]

Rather than take years of my life straining at stupidity and getting railed at by my team (wtf is this about?)/their team I've decided to call it quits. Dota since 5.84 and I'm done with the CONSTANT craptalking.

[Blumpster]

I'm all for the fact that if you pushed one lane, wiped out the team, took out raxes you have the right to move over to the next tower/rax and take it out without pushing creeps up. It's not a really 'smart' thing to do, because you're going to be tanking creeps and a tower, so you'll be softened up for the enemies when they rez, so I think it's a perfectly balanced risk vs reward scenario.

We had a Moon Queen solo our top lane and head straight for our throne while we systematically cleared all their raxes before going in on the tree. I didn't even notice it the entire time, all though I was wondering where the MQ was I just figured she was afk in the fountain since we were owning pretty hard at that point. Chaotic saved us by dying and buying back to defend, but I think that kind of thing is a lot more annoying than backdooring. When we've already basically won and are taking out raxes he just bum rushes our base and goes straight for the heart. I don't think it should be illegal or anything, as it's obviously easy to defend if you're not stupid (like me)and pay attention to shit like that, but damn I did not like the thought of having the feeling we've won this game and all the sudden my screen warps back to our base and the announcers yells DEFEAT as my jaw drops.

[Hathe]

Played a game as Andromeda, was 5/0 mid game and 10 minutes later, our team ahead 20 kills. Teammates kept stealing my kills, was 7/8 end game and we were down about 2-3 kills. Hardly won that game, it's pretty fucking lame when people want to stretch their e-peen on support heroes.

[TwiNCannoN]

Originally Posted by c8fe

With how bad the HoN community whined about magmus I fear for what will happen if enchantress is added. Ultimate pub stomp hero for any good player although since 90% of the HoN community can't even orb walk with arachna so there probably isn't much to worry about.

The magmus whining was well placed considering the first patch version of the hero he had double or even triple his base stat/stat growth. You could play a carry SK with the first iteration of him lol.