Modern Warfare 2

[Twobit Whore]

I think IW is banking on the fact that it doesn't hurt the majority of legit users, and in fact improves their experience. Whether that comes true or not is yet to be seen but if the process is streamlined and functions well then they will have accomplished that.

I'm not huge into online FPS but my basic process is 'look for server with the amount of people I'd like to play with (usually a server 2-3 slots from being full) and look for the one with the lowest ping from that group.'

[Blumpster]

This game is a fucking joke now.

[Believe]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I'm not huge into online FPS but my basic process is 'look for server with the amount of people I'd like to play with (usually a server 2-3 slots from being full) and look for the one with the lowest ping from that group.'

That's how it starts, when you first start playing, sure.

But then you find a server that enforces rules in a way that you like. So you decide to favorite the server. Then, you keep playing on that server and get to know the other clan members and regulars. You become friends with them. You start joining them on their Forums and in Ventrilo, and 'hang out' outside the game. Perhaps you join their clan, and eventually have real life meet ups. It happens, and I can attest to it as a clan leader for nearly 5 years.

Perhaps you're one of those few casual players that they've been talking about that would enjoy random servers, but I think most PC players enjoy the social experience that comes with dedicated servers. I just don't think that kind of experience is duplicated with match-made Listen Servers.

[Twobit Whore]

I would wager that your experience is by far the minority while mine is more the norm. But meh, not like we could prove it either way!

[unregisteredperson]

The thread is turning a little bit stupid, 2007 sales data, 90% piracy rates... and out of the woodwork comes the crazies who actually believe IW are just trying to create a better world for those pc casuals, as though some scrubbed up P2P piece of shit and dedicated servers are mutually exclusive.

[Twobit Whore]

I don't think I ever said they were mutually exclusive, but people acting like it completely kills any MP value whatsoever aren't being completely rational.

As far as 90% piracy:

Infinity Ward Amazed by Rampant PC Piracy - Shacknews - PC Games, PlayStation, Xbox 360 and Wii video game news, previews and downloads
id and Epic: Multiplatform because of piracy - Shacknews - PC Games, PlayStation, Xbox 360 and Wii video game news, previews and downloads
id Software CEO: piracy pushed us multiplatform
Can PC Gaming Survive in a Console World? - 3D Graphics, Audio & HDTV by ExtremeTech

These former giants of the PC platform aren't running to consoles because they want to. Who knows the actual numbers.. would have bought, wouldn't have anyway, whatever. Theres a reason that draconic DRM has been intruding our software and it's not because the devs think it's fucking fun.

[Occido]

It's one of those things they're never going to stop.
And putting things in like DRM's just encourage piracy not prevent it.
Unfortunately, with the internet there's always going to be someone out there to crack it and upload it.

Hell, you can pirate 360 games if you have a bricked system

[Foggy]

The companies can claim the number to be as high or low as they please because there is no way to know for sure. Not to mention, there are people like me with CoD:4 that downloaded the game, played single player and went out and bought it. 5 of my friends did the exact same thing. So even pointing to a number of seeds on a bittorrent file is complete bullshit.

If they are claiming that 2 million is only 10% of the people that play CoD4 then they are claiming more people play CoD4 than World of Warcraft by at least 10 million.. Now that is bullshit.

[unregisteredperson]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I don't think I ever said they were mutually exclusive, but people acting like it completely kills any MP value whatsoever aren't being completely rational.

No you didn't say it was mutually exclusive, you said

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

I think IW is banking on the fact that it doesn't hurt the majority of legit users, and in fact improves their experience.

which is crap, because even if you were correct and these mythical casual PC gamers exist in some kind of decent numbers, there's no reason they couldn't have both their P2P matchmaking "superior experience" junk and dedicated server support. And you know, keep the clan scene, the mod scene, not fuck everyone over.

I don't pretend to speak for anyone else, but with no dedicated servers the multiplayer in this game is irrelevant to me. Why on earth would I suffer through that shit when other games support how I wish to play?

And yeah, 90%, not seeing it in any of those links, and if it's there I don't believe it anyway as it's just a fucking stupid figure from everything we know. Makes no sense, no way it could. Not sure the relevance of piracy to this discussion either, good multiplayer offers incentive to purchase as opposed to pirate.

Now no doubt the 360 version dwarfs the PC in sales numbers, but that's not relevant to anything. The name of the game here is growth, and someone must have made a calculation somewhere that weighs up the expected losses of unit sales for dropping dedicated server support against the expected gains from the DLC this system allows them to push, and they've come out ahead. It wouldn't surprise me if in that calculation they've assumed we're all like Jozu from the previous page, that is we're all just addicts dying for a fix because their game is just so fucking awesome. In the PC space at least, I'm not all that convinced.

[Lleauaric~EW]

From a business standpoint... what are they really losing?

If you want to play MP... now you HAVE to buy the game pretty much.

So a part of the 10% that actually bought MW1 wont buy MW2. Even that being a significant number is suspect. I think they probably feel making the game alot harder to play online with a pirated copy will allow them to tap into the 90% of players who play MP on pirated copies.

The Multiplayer looks fucking awesome. People are going to buy this game in massive numbers. Many will be forced to because they cant play multiplayer otherwise.

You are witnessing the death of the dedicated server.

[Saladus]

As much as it sucks for PC users, some people need to get a grip here. It may suck big time for people in clans who were planning on custom shit, but honesty, is the removal of custom servers going to really keep people who are not in clans from logging into multiplayer? Non-dedicated servers REALLY aren't that fucking bad. And as soon as you party up with friends, it's pretty much always a great time.

It's just funny as hell to see this thread go from "Eh, probably getting it on PC myself, but not sure yet" to "God damnit gghgffffffffff FUCK MW2 I WON'T BUY!" Suddenly we have people going "Oh well, gonna pirate it for single player and then fuck it." This is probably coming from the same people who say "I download it illegally first and if I like it I buy it." You know... the same people who contributed to the devs seeing the such ridiculously high number of illegal downloaders, or 'samplers.'

[unregisteredperson]

Originally Posted by Lleauaric~EW

From a business standpoint... what are they really losing?

If you want to play MP... now you HAVE to buy the game pretty much.

So a part of the 10% that actually bought MW1 wont buy MW2. Even that being a significant number is suspect. I think they probably feel making the game alot harder to play online with a pirated copy will allow them to tap into the 90% of players who play MP on pirated copies.

The Multiplayer looks fucking awesome. People are going to buy this game in massive numbers. Many will be forced to because they cant play multiplayer otherwise.

You are witnessing the death of the dedicated server.

The CoD4 PC multiplayer community, consisting mainly of pirates, are all going to buy MW2 for the fuck awesome console experience and because no dedicated server support from IW will practically eliminate piracy.

[Jozu]

Originally Posted by unregisteredperson

No you didn't say it was mutually exclusive, you said which is crap, because even if you were correct and these mythical casual PC gamers exist in some kind of decent numbers, there's no reason they couldn't have both their P2P matchmaking "superior experience" junk and dedicated server support. And you know, keep the clan scene, the mod scene, not fuck everyone over.

I don't pretend to speak for anyone else, but with no dedicated servers the multiplayer in this game is irrelevant to me. Why on earth would I suffer through that shit when other games support how I wish to play?

And yeah, 90%, not seeing it in any of those links, and if it's there I don't believe it anyway as it's just a fucking stupid figure from everything we know. Makes no sense, no way it could. Not sure the relevance of piracy to this discussion either, good multiplayer offers incentive to purchase as opposed to pirate.

Now no doubt the 360 version dwarfs the PC in sales numbers, but that's not relevant to anything. The name of the game here is growth, and someone must have made a calculation somewhere that weighs up the expected losses of unit sales for dropping dedicated server support against the expected gains from the DLC this system allows them to push, and they've come out ahead. It wouldn't surprise me if in that calculation they've assumed we're all like Jozu from the previous page, that is we're all just addicts dying for a fix because their game is just so fucking awesome. In the PC space at least, I'm not all that convinced.

I will be buying this for PS3, so I remain unaffected by these shenanigans. If I planned on going the PC route, I would still probably buy, as I am a more casual type who just browses high pop servers and puts in maybe an hour or two a night.

But that has nothing to do with me being a blind fanboy, it just comes down to me having played and enjoyed the fuck out of MW1, so naturally Im going to want to purchase 2. I can see why some of the hardcore PC guys would pass, its just a shame because it will be a tough game to pass up.

[Believe]

Originally Posted by Saladus

Non-dedicated servers REALLY aren't that fucking bad.

wut

Console Listen server ≠ PC Listen Servers. Just because it doesn't seem that bad on your 360 or PS3 doesn't mean it should be just fine on PC.


Also, I'm not AT ALL convinced that any significant number of people that pirated CoD4 played on cracked servers. So I guess that's why I find this laughable. Again, this change is hurting honest PC Players more than it's hurting those pesky pirates, in my opinion.

And I'm not at all convinced that this change will stop pirates from being able to play online (one way or another). It's been done with pretty much every other P2P FPS.

But that has nothing to do with me being a blind fanboy, it just comes down to me having played and enjoyed the fuck out of MW1, so naturally Im going to want to purchase 2. I can see why some of the hardcore PC guys would pass, its just a shame because it will be a tough game to pass up.

That's the whole point. I guarantee you won't find any bigger Call of Duty/Modern Warfare fans than in 6FR. We've logged thousands of hours playing CoD4, and have spent thousands of dollars to run a server. We love the game and the franchise. We aren't boycotting MW2 because we're just whiny ass PC gamers. We know how much this change hurts the game. We want to play this game for years and years to come, it's just a sad truth that it will not be possible with Listen Servers.

[Believe]

Nice little gem from an Infinity Ward artist.

http://twitter.com/IW_hyphen/status/5031626712

Seriously, people, grow up. The stunts you people are pulling only hurts your case and gets you nowhere.