Neogaf 360 leaks - Page 2

Lost Ranger · 06-16-2008, 03:35 PM

My only concern is for the next generation of consoles. I really couldn't care less who "wins" or "loses" this generation because I own all 3. Any game that looks good I get, period. Fanboism is for faggots. That said I am really hoping next gen doesn't see us staring at 3 "Wiis" because MS and Sony's next products are Wii clones.

At is it right now simply owning 2 (if not all 3) gives us all the gaming we could want. We get the power house HD games with the ps3/360 and we get the Nintendo flavor stuff with the Wii. Everyone wins. The thing is that HD gaming is not "dead" like someone in a different post oh so dramaticly stated. There is a huge market of people that want games like GTA (obviously) and Halo 3 and.. well you get the idea. If the system is viewed as a "killing machine" really doesn't matter because if they want little Jimmy playing kiddie shit then they have that option.

Which is the real bottom line on this whole thing. Right now there is something for everyone. We have options, and I am hoping that during the quest to make $$$ Sony/MS don't go for the casual little systems in the next round. The gaming world needs a system like the Wii, but it also needs the 360/PS3. We don't need 3 Wiis, just like we don't need 3 360 clones.

Kragg Goremaw · 06-16-2008, 04:05 PM

Systems are bound to copy what's popular, that's why we've got rumble and analog sticks on all the controllers now. Each system is either better than the last and on par with the current trend besides the Wii, the Wii did something different and came up big. The only thing different between the 360 and the PS3 really is the support that third parties are putting behind the 360 cause it got out there first, just like nothing was really different between the PS2 and the Xbox, sure the graphics were better on the Xbox but PS2 had the install base so the games went there and MS was stuck with PC wannabes and PS2 ports.

The only reason we need two or three systems is to keep things honest and the price down on the console front, but at the same time it makes it more costly for Devs to make games for because you divide your market or port it.

Like I said in the NPD thread, I think we've reached a point with graphics that they don't really matter much any more, we'll see a small boost but the next gen will be about keeping costs down, getting units in to the hands of the masses, and ripping off the Wii. I mean CoD4 looks fantastic, where do you go from there that isn't physics or gameplay driven?

WoW and the Wii have shown that graphics don't mean shit if something costs too much or it's not fun to play. Desktop Tower Defense, simple graphics great fun, while Crysis has awesome graphics but it's a generic shooter. Why as a company would you spend so much cash to limit your target audience to technophiles, this is what led to the slow start of the PS3.

Come out with a system 3 years from now that is an upgrade to the current gen stuff but at around the 300-350 price range with a control scheme that is easy to pick up for people that haven't played games years or only the Wii. The Wii is the perfect starter system but outside of a few games it's not very deep and people that start the gaming hobby then want to look for more are left hanging.

You want a Wii60 or a PSWii, some kinda hybrid for the next generation, something that is fun, innovative, and easy to use.You don't have to use the Wii style wand, you could do something with a camera system for head tracking and what not.

Lost Ranger · 06-16-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kragg Goremaw

Stuff.

I agree for the most part. I would be thrilled with a Wii/360 love child type system. So long as graphics don't take a step backwards or stall then I have no issues with cheaper systems. I just don't want to play GTAV and come to find that it looks exactly like GTAIV... or god forbid worse because the next Xbox is not as powerful as the 360 so they can keep the cost of production down.

Graphics are not all important that is something I wish companies would learn. That being said though we don't want all MMOs looking like WoW and we don't want all console games looking dated. Realism is a great part of Crysis and future gaming in general, the issue is that they spent all their time on the engine and forgot about that neat little thing called gameplay. That doesn't mean that games like Crysis should not be made though. The engine has been built, the ground work is done. Now take it and make something amazing with it.

I agree that they should not over reach with tech because no one wants a $1000 next gen system. However, 5 years from now I don't want to be playing a game or MMO that looks exactly like the games I am playing now, or worse. To each their own though I guess.

Akileese · 06-16-2008, 04:22 PM

Yeah but is copying the Wii really the smart business move for both of them? Yeah! LET'S COMPLETELY IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE AND GO FOR THE CASUAL MARKET WITH THE SHORT ATTENTION SPAN!

I mean, for Microsoft, the casual market doesn't make sense. Even if you create a motion controller, who's saying Billy and Ann Casualgamer are going to go out and shell a ton of money for the system AND this controller. Are you going to go out and create another bundle just for this? I just don't see it and I think it's a really poor business move to try and turn around and flip flop you're entire plan because the Wii is successful. I mean, doesn't Microsoft think that a big part of the reason the Wii is so successful is because it has the Nintendo brand name?

This argument has been beaten to death though. I just don't like how MS has decided that casual is the way to go. It just seems like a bad business idea.

Kragg Goremaw · 06-16-2008, 07:22 PM

If the Nintendo brand name meant anything then the Gamecube and the N64 wouldn't have done so badly, it carries some weight but the games are were the real loyalties lay. See FF7 and the PS1 for example.

Every company copies what was successful before it, thats how we got to were we are today, I mean what is different about the 360 and the PS3? Controllers are almost the same, they are disc based, and they are marketed towards the same people. MS just learned that the people they were ignoring are the larger market, is just like people making MMOs, you want to copy and add to WoW.

As for MS wanting a Wii, I think and hope they aren't stupid enough try and put out a new control scheme this cycle and just focus on the next Xbox. I mean, think of GoW3 with better motion controls than right now and more in deep co-op. You don't have to have one or the other when it gameplay and graphics, you can have both.

And the reason MS wants the Wii market is because the Wii has already out sold them in every market in the world and in less time than it's taken MS to reach. MS is a business, they want money, they don't care about fanboys and what they want or feel, this is why they make games like Scene It with the ghetto little controllers to try and capture the casual market.

What you need to worry about more than the console copying each other is the Devs foregoing big budget games for quick shovel ware like they are tossing on the Wii. I'm all for making things casual friendly and accessible, why do we need controllers with 10 or more buttons and the D-pad on it?

Akileese · 06-16-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kragg Goremaw

If the Nintendo brand name meant anything then the Gamecube and the N64 wouldn't have done so badly, it carries some weight but the games are were the real loyalties lay. See FF7 and the PS1 for example.

Every company copies what was successful before it, thats how we got to were we are today, I mean what is different about the 360 and the PS3? Controllers are almost the same, they are disc based, and they are marketed towards the same people. MS just learned that the people they were ignoring are the larger market, is just like people making MMOs, you want to copy and add to WoW.

As for MS wanting a Wii, I think and hope they aren't stupid enough try and put out a new control scheme this cycle and just focus on the next Xbox. I mean, think of GoW3 with better motion controls than right now and more in deep co-op. You don't have to have one or the other when it gameplay and graphics, you can have both.

And the reason MS wants the Wii market is because the Wii has already out sold them in every market in the world and in less time than it's taken MS to reach. MS is a business, they want money, they don't care about fanboys and what they want or feel, this is why they make games like Scene It with the ghetto little controllers to try and capture the casual market.

What you need to worry about more than the console copying each other is the Devs foregoing big budget games for quick shovel ware like they are tossing on the Wii. I'm all for making things casual friendly and accessible, why do we need controllers with 10 or more buttons and the D-pad on it?

Yeah but I mean, you look at the Wii and it's Nintendo which people who were our age in the 80s know and love. On top of that, it's very simple. That's what my parents love about it and I'm sure that's what any middle aged person loves about the Wii.

Obviously it's different for every person though.

Samflam · 06-17-2008, 09:22 AM

I love the price of the Wii.

Sharmai · 06-17-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samflam

I love the price of the Wii.

+1 Internets. I am a pricefanboy give me an HD system with wii prices (which we are seeing now) and I'm all good.

RiskyChris · 06-17-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharmai

+1 Internets. I am a pricefanboy give me an HD system with wii prices (which we are seeing now) and I'm all good.

The 360 is already near the price of the Wii. I don't consider $350 to be outrageous.

Yeah, it's silly that MS has held that price for so long, but that's not that much money.

Samflam · 06-17-2008, 03:20 PM

Fair enough, but I want a PS3 damn it!

Lost Ranger · 06-17-2008, 03:39 PM

I was a bit premature with buying my PS3. I had always planned to own all 3 systems but the main reason I wanted the PS3 is for future Final Fantasy games. Ill be very sad if the PS3 goes down in price again before FF13 comes out hehe.

Still not a bad purchase though.

Kragg Goremaw · 06-17-2008, 05:19 PM

Yeah, I I'm holding on on either a 360 or PS3 for another price drop which should come sometime this fall.

In brighter news for the PS3, in-game XMB and trophies are coming in firmware update 2.40. I've been waiting to see how Sony does this because honestly, Xbox Live totally crushes what Sony has on the table right now and if online gaming is the future Sony needs to wake up.

If Nintendo really did anything wrong this generation it's the lack of decent online.

Lost Ranger · 06-17-2008, 11:51 PM

I can see waiting for the PS3 a bit, but the 360 was more then worth the purchase and that was when it was more expensive heh. It is without a doubt the console I use the most. I put like 70% of my time into the 360, and divide the rest up between wii/ps3 heh.

This is mainly due to online play though. Can't bring myself to jump on the Wii-fit bandwagon so nothing to do on that console atm

06-16-2008, 07:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Kragg Goremaw Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 111 +5 Internets	If the Nintendo brand name meant anything then the Gamecube and the N64 wouldn't have done so badly, it carries some weight but the games are were the real loyalties lay. See FF7 and the PS1 for example. Every company copies what was successful before it, thats how we got to were we are today, I mean what is different about the 360 and the PS3? Controllers are almost the same, they are disc based, and they are marketed towards the same people. MS just learned that the people they were ignoring are the larger market, is just like people making MMOs, you want to copy and add to WoW. As for MS wanting a Wii, I think and hope they aren't stupid enough try and put out a new control scheme this cycle and just focus on the next Xbox. I mean, think of GoW3 with better motion controls than right now and more in deep co-op. You don't have to have one or the other when it gameplay and graphics, you can have both. And the reason MS wants the Wii market is because the Wii has already out sold them in every market in the world and in less time than it's taken MS to reach. MS is a business, they want money, they don't care about fanboys and what they want or feel, this is why they make games like Scene It with the ghetto little controllers to try and capture the casual market. What you need to worry about more than the console copying each other is the Devs foregoing big budget games for quick shovel ware like they are tossing on the Wii. I'm all for making things casual friendly and accessible, why do we need controllers with 10 or more buttons and the D-pad on it? Last edited by Kragg Goremaw : 06-16-2008 at 07:26 PM.

06-17-2008, 09:22 AM	#22 (permalink)
Samflam That must be very tiring Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toe-rawn-toe Posts: 1,176	I love the price of the Wii. __________________ Ridiculous

06-17-2008, 03:20 PM	#25 (permalink)
Samflam That must be very tiring Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toe-rawn-toe Posts: 1,176	Fair enough, but I want a PS3 damn it! __________________ Ridiculous

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06-16-2008, 03:35 PM	#16 (permalink)
Lost Ranger Still Lost Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,165 -13 Internets	My only concern is for the next generation of consoles. I really couldn't care less who "wins" or "loses" this generation because I own all 3. Any game that looks good I get, period. Fanboism is for faggots. That said I am really hoping next gen doesn't see us staring at 3 "Wiis" because MS and Sony's next products are Wii clones. At is it right now simply owning 2 (if not all 3) gives us all the gaming we could want. We get the power house HD games with the ps3/360 and we get the Nintendo flavor stuff with the Wii. Everyone wins. The thing is that HD gaming is not "dead" like someone in a different post oh so dramaticly stated. There is a huge market of people that want games like GTA (obviously) and Halo 3 and.. well you get the idea. If the system is viewed as a "killing machine" really doesn't matter because if they want little Jimmy playing kiddie shit then they have that option. Which is the real bottom line on this whole thing. Right now there is something for everyone. We have options, and I am hoping that during the quest to make $$$ Sony/MS don't go for the casual little systems in the next round. The gaming world needs a system like the Wii, but it also needs the 360/PS3. We don't need 3 Wiis, just like we don't need 3 360 clones.

06-16-2008, 04:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
Kragg Goremaw Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 111 +5 Internets	Systems are bound to copy what's popular, that's why we've got rumble and analog sticks on all the controllers now. Each system is either better than the last and on par with the current trend besides the Wii, the Wii did something different and came up big. The only thing different between the 360 and the PS3 really is the support that third parties are putting behind the 360 cause it got out there first, just like nothing was really different between the PS2 and the Xbox, sure the graphics were better on the Xbox but PS2 had the install base so the games went there and MS was stuck with PC wannabes and PS2 ports. The only reason we need two or three systems is to keep things honest and the price down on the console front, but at the same time it makes it more costly for Devs to make games for because you divide your market or port it. Like I said in the NPD thread, I think we've reached a point with graphics that they don't really matter much any more, we'll see a small boost but the next gen will be about keeping costs down, getting units in to the hands of the masses, and ripping off the Wii. I mean CoD4 looks fantastic, where do you go from there that isn't physics or gameplay driven? WoW and the Wii have shown that graphics don't mean shit if something costs too much or it's not fun to play. Desktop Tower Defense, simple graphics great fun, while Crysis has awesome graphics but it's a generic shooter. Why as a company would you spend so much cash to limit your target audience to technophiles, this is what led to the slow start of the PS3. Come out with a system 3 years from now that is an upgrade to the current gen stuff but at around the 300-350 price range with a control scheme that is easy to pick up for people that haven't played games years or only the Wii. The Wii is the perfect starter system but outside of a few games it's not very deep and people that start the gaming hobby then want to look for more are left hanging. You want a Wii60 or a PSWii, some kinda hybrid for the next generation, something that is fun, innovative, and easy to use.You don't have to use the Wii style wand, you could do something with a camera system for head tracking and what not.

06-17-2008, 03:39 PM	#26 (permalink)
Lost Ranger Still Lost Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,165 -13 Internets	I was a bit premature with buying my PS3. I had always planned to own all 3 systems but the main reason I wanted the PS3 is for future Final Fantasy games. Ill be very sad if the PS3 goes down in price again before FF13 comes out hehe. Still not a bad purchase though.

06-17-2008, 05:19 PM	#27 (permalink)
Kragg Goremaw Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 111 +5 Internets	Yeah, I I'm holding on on either a 360 or PS3 for another price drop which should come sometime this fall. In brighter news for the PS3, in-game XMB and trophies are coming in firmware update 2.40. I've been waiting to see how Sony does this because honestly, Xbox Live totally crushes what Sony has on the table right now and if online gaming is the future Sony needs to wake up. If Nintendo really did anything wrong this generation it's the lack of decent online.

06-17-2008, 11:51 PM	#28 (permalink)
Lost Ranger Still Lost Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,165 -13 Internets	I can see waiting for the PS3 a bit, but the 360 was more then worth the purchase and that was when it was more expensive heh. It is without a doubt the console I use the most. I put like 70% of my time into the 360, and divide the rest up between wii/ps3 heh. This is mainly due to online play though. Can't bring myself to jump on the Wii-fit bandwagon so nothing to do on that console atm