New PhysX processor

Zuuljin · 05-08-2006, 03:16 PM

Well tommorow the new PhysX processors come out and I was wondering if anyone has any other info on how well these things work? They are supposed to retail at about $300, but I dont know if its worth it.

http://www.ageia.com/index.html

Cor · 05-08-2006, 03:20 PM

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=17568825

Thread with info.

Short version - big waste of money.

Cellfactor, the game which shows off the capabilties of the PhysX, is currently unplayable on a quad-sli 7900gtx computer at low resolution with AA & HDR off.

I'm still shocked that they expect people to buy these things.

Zuuljin · 05-08-2006, 03:38 PM

Well, after reading all that, I'v come to the conclusion that its just to early, and games dont take advantage of it like they should. So while it does help things move around more realistically, games are using it just to "add more things to move around realistically", which still is more shit that the GPU has to render, thereby dropping your FPS.

Now if they were to use it on character meshes, normal models and pretty much everything that isnt graphics/logic related it might work. But more shit for the sake of more shit just isnt worth it.

Cor · 05-08-2006, 03:41 PM

Read further on about Cellfactor. Its the killer app which fails to deliver with incredibly poor performance for visuals that are hardly mind blowing compared to other available games. The performance problems don't seem to be related to the gpu being unable to render enough stuff. As I mentioned earlier, Quad SLI systems are having fps issues. Even the videos on the Ageia site show a noticable drop in fps before/during explosions and other items the physx starts doing its stuff.

But, as you said, it is pretty early. Guess we won't be seeing the how useful these things are until Havok's hardware physics implementation is widely available and ut2007 is released.

Communistbloc · 05-08-2006, 03:52 PM

Graphics cards didn't have a big following when they came out. It takes a while for software to match up with hardware.

Vorph · 05-08-2006, 04:15 PM

By the time that happens Physx (and most likely Ageia) will be dead and buried by HavokFX, thanks to the native support it will be getting in both ATI and nVidia hardware.

Luthair · 05-10-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Communistbloc

Graphics cards didn't have a big following when they came out. It takes a while for software to match up with hardware.

While true, 3D cards were rather quickly supported even with existing games (ie, Quake).

I think the biggest problem will be the cost, there aren't many people willing (or able) to shell out $$ on a GPU and then thrown on an extra 300 for a physics processor.

I believe GPU based physics will probably result in a drop in visual quality unless its with top of the line cards in SLI/Crossfire, most systems are GPU limited in games.

Zuuljin · 05-10-2006, 02:19 PM

http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcfo...pable_force_of

site has some video's of the cellfactor tech demo thing. It looks absolutly amazing, especially with what they did with the cloth physics. If this is a true implimentation of what can be done using it, then it will definantly take off.

It was also running at acceptable framerates, so I dont know about that guy in the other thread who said his quad-sli machine couldnt handle it.

Eomer · 05-10-2006, 03:18 PM

I hope separate add-in, standalone physics boards die a quick and very ugly death. The last thing we need is yet another option for the retarded consumer to have to worry about when buying his PC from Dell or whoever else. PC's are complicated enough as it stands, the last thing we need is yet another 200 dollar required add-in board.

My hope is that they integrate this sort of functionality onto all graphics boards (IE: don't have the GPU doing the physics, but a separate discrete chip on the same board). That way the marketplace remains largely the same. The cheapest, low end boards that come without the PPU on board can use the GPU to do the physics, much like integrated chipsets use the CPU to bring everything to a halt.

Vorph · 05-10-2006, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer

I hope separate add-in, standalone physics boards die a quick and very ugly death. The last thing we need is yet another option for the retarded consumer to have to worry about when buying his PC from Dell or whoever else. PC's are complicated enough as it stands, the last thing we need is yet another 200 dollar required add-in board.

Agreed. I'm still bitter about my PCI soundcard messing up the airflow I have going in my case, last thing I'd ever consider doing is adding another PCI board. My gpu is running at 47 degrees right now with no load, peaking at 81 degrees under max load... that's up 10-15 degrees on each since I added the soundcard to the system, and I placed it in the second furthest slot. :/

Zuuljin · 05-10-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer

I hope separate add-in, standalone physics boards die a quick and very ugly death. The last thing we need is yet another option for the retarded consumer to have to worry about when buying his PC from Dell or whoever else. PC's are complicated enough as it stands, the last thing we need is yet another 200 dollar required add-in board.

My hope is that they integrate this sort of functionality onto all graphics boards (IE: don't have the GPU doing the physics, but a separate discrete chip on the same board). That way the marketplace remains largely the same. The cheapest, low end boards that come without the PPU on board can use the GPU to do the physics, much like integrated chipsets use the CPU to bring everything to a halt.

No doubt they will, just like they have integrated video and audio chipsets in motherboards. However if you want the *best* or *cutting edge* hardware, I do believe you will have to buy a seperate board.

I honestly dont mind buying a seperate card, however the price needs to drop by 50%-75%. The capabilities of this card, even given the benefit of the doubt that it will do exactly what it theoretically is supposed to do, still does not justify a $300 price tag. Its a marginal upgrade at best. I'd pay $50-$100 MAX for something like this.

Small tangent for Vorph since you mention air flow. I was just thinking the other day, that if keeping the PC cool is so important, why even have a closed case? When the inside of your car gets hot, you just open the windows and let it cool down, so why not just get a frame to place all your hardware in and let it breath freely? My initial thought against it would be youd get hair and crap flying into the onboard fans and messing things up, but I was just wondreing if there were other reasons besides that?

Vorph · 05-10-2006, 06:33 PM

Last summer I left the case open with a fan blowing into it because I was having a lot of overheating problems. Hopefully better AC in that part of the house will solve the problem this year.

I have 3 cats, 2 of them Himalayans, so that's why I don't do it normally.

Darus Grey · 05-10-2006, 10:08 PM

Generally a well managed/designed case with proper airflow will perform better then an "Open air" solution.

Granted, thats under the most ideal conditions...which rarely apply.

Iannis · 05-11-2006, 06:14 AM

I think the only game that's using it for at least half a year is City of Heroes.

Personally I wouldn't drop $300 on some fancy shmancy cutting edge thing until there are enough games to justify it. But I also usually play a gaming rig until it blows up, and then spend a wad upgrading. Constantly keeping up with the newest hardware is a waste of cash :P

Eomer · 05-11-2006, 07:11 AM

The other reason I see these cards failing miserably is the simple fact that adoption of them will be difficult to achieve. Unless several "killer apps" come out that outright require you to have one of these cards to play the game, otherwise only the hardcore people with dual SLI systems will bother picking them up.

I know I don't have any interest in buying one of these if all it does is increase the number of particles I can see on a screen, without really having any major effect on gameplay.

The problem is, what game designer in their right mind will develop a game that is automatically going to have it's audience severely constricted, and who would fund it's development?

05-08-2006, 03:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zuuljin So there's this plane on a treadmill... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,932 +5 Internets	New PhysX processor Well tommorow the new PhysX processors come out and I was wondering if anyone has any other info on how well these things work? They are supposed to retail at about $300, but I dont know if its worth it. http://www.ageia.com/index.html

05-08-2006, 03:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,136 +1 Internets	Read further on about Cellfactor. Its the killer app which fails to deliver with incredibly poor performance for visuals that are hardly mind blowing compared to other available games. The performance problems don't seem to be related to the gpu being unable to render enough stuff. As I mentioned earlier, Quad SLI systems are having fps issues. Even the videos on the Ageia site show a noticable drop in fps before/during explosions and other items the physx starts doing its stuff. But, as you said, it is pretty early. Guess we won't be seeing the how useful these things are until Havok's hardware physics implementation is widely available and ut2007 is released. Last edited by Cor : 05-08-2006 at 03:44 PM.

05-08-2006, 04:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
Vorph Never Go Full Retard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 5,620	By the time that happens Physx (and most likely Ageia) will be dead and buried by HavokFX, thanks to the native support it will be getting in both ATI and nVidia hardware. __________________

05-10-2006, 06:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
Vorph Never Go Full Retard Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 5,620	Last summer I left the case open with a fan blowing into it because I was having a lot of overheating problems. Hopefully better AC in that part of the house will solve the problem this year. I have 3 cats, 2 of them Himalayans, so that's why I don't do it normally. __________________

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05-08-2006, 03:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cor Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,136 +1 Internets	http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=17568825 Thread with info. Short version - big waste of money. Cellfactor, the game which shows off the capabilties of the PhysX, is currently unplayable on a quad-sli 7900gtx computer at low resolution with AA & HDR off. I'm still shocked that they expect people to buy these things.

05-08-2006, 03:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zuuljin So there's this plane on a treadmill... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,932 +5 Internets	Well, after reading all that, I'v come to the conclusion that its just to early, and games dont take advantage of it like they should. So while it does help things move around more realistically, games are using it just to "add more things to move around realistically", which still is more shit that the GPU has to render, thereby dropping your FPS. Now if they were to use it on character meshes, normal models and pretty much everything that isnt graphics/logic related it might work. But more shit for the sake of more shit just isnt worth it.

05-08-2006, 03:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Communistbloc Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 739 +0 Internets	Graphics cards didn't have a big following when they came out. It takes a while for software to match up with hardware.

05-10-2006, 02:19 PM	#8 (permalink)
Zuuljin So there's this plane on a treadmill... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,932 +5 Internets	http://blog.pcformat.co.uk/page/pcfo...pable_force_of site has some video's of the cellfactor tech demo thing. It looks absolutly amazing, especially with what they did with the cloth physics. If this is a true implimentation of what can be done using it, then it will definantly take off. It was also running at acceptable framerates, so I dont know about that guy in the other thread who said his quad-sli machine couldnt handle it.

05-10-2006, 03:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,762 +26 Internets	I hope separate add-in, standalone physics boards die a quick and very ugly death. The last thing we need is yet another option for the retarded consumer to have to worry about when buying his PC from Dell or whoever else. PC's are complicated enough as it stands, the last thing we need is yet another 200 dollar required add-in board. My hope is that they integrate this sort of functionality onto all graphics boards (IE: don't have the GPU doing the physics, but a separate discrete chip on the same board). That way the marketplace remains largely the same. The cheapest, low end boards that come without the PPU on board can use the GPU to do the physics, much like integrated chipsets use the CPU to bring everything to a halt.

05-10-2006, 10:08 PM	#13 (permalink)
Darus Grey I can dance if I want to Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,255	Generally a well managed/designed case with proper airflow will perform better then an "Open air" solution. Granted, thats under the most ideal conditions...which rarely apply.

05-11-2006, 06:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
Iannis Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Butt Hugging Moose Jockey Posts: 4,968 +0 Internets	I think the only game that's using it for at least half a year is City of Heroes. Personally I wouldn't drop $300 on some fancy shmancy cutting edge thing until there are enough games to justify it. But I also usually play a gaming rig until it blows up, and then spend a wad upgrading. Constantly keeping up with the newest hardware is a waste of cash :P

05-11-2006, 07:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
Eomer You mean I can change this? Neat! Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,762 +26 Internets	The other reason I see these cards failing miserably is the simple fact that adoption of them will be difficult to achieve. Unless several "killer apps" come out that outright require you to have one of these cards to play the game, otherwise only the hardcore people with dual SLI systems will bother picking them up. I know I don't have any interest in buying one of these if all it does is increase the number of particles I can see on a screen, without really having any major effect on gameplay. The problem is, what game designer in their right mind will develop a game that is automatically going to have it's audience severely constricted, and who would fund it's development?