FoH Warcraft 3: DOTA Community.

[Sidhe]

I only had time for a few games last night, but I'm an idiot ended up playing til I had only 3 hours to sleep before work. Some friends and I did a few in-house 3v3s to toy with all the new characters and exchange our thoughts, and we ran various 5v5 -aps on USEast. These unfailingly had one guy who said "lol they're all playing new heroes, I'll pick , get ahead, and solo the game." But oh well, we got a bit of experience with the new guys and occasionally coordinated ganks on someone who thought way too much of himself in a very low quality pub game. But right, what we found...


Sacred Warrior:
Kevin played a lot of this character. A very Naix-type opening build involving gauntlets/bracers and tengos seemed to get him off to a nice start, which he could carry late as is typical with strength heroes. He's not available right now for me to ask him about the abilities, but I'll edit that in later. Late game, though, it was items like HoT that let him do pretty horrible things with those abilities and still have HP to fight with. The ult that pumped his STR 20%+8/sec or something like that got him out of a lot of nasty situations, much like a Morphling strength swap would. That's just a whole lot of regen.


Templar Assassin:
This is the character I tried the hardest to get working. My first attempts were inty builds of various levels, with items like nulls and even at one point an arcane ring. Her active abilities are really quite nice, but her mana pool without this sort of item didn't support them. Arcane ring actually gave more than she needed, however I couldn't get either of these builds to work very well. She just needs too many levels in her abilities for them to really be functional, and I was finding that if I ran int early on, her damage didn't keep up. By the time your abilities are giving you +60 and +200, with how tricky they are to use, you still won't be killing anyone.

So I went with a more cautious early-game damage build and just farmed it up. A level each of her two actives provides a whole lot of survivability, though as people learn how her invis works that may not last. For now, though, I started with one each of those and pumped her range/spill ability, opting to use her more mana intensive abilities when she could properly support them. A steady +30 or more damage early on (and some attack speed) from good items went much farther than relying on the actives giving their bigger bonuses. This was especially true because with a little creative placement, the damage spill allowed for pretty good farming, even as practically a melee range hero. And when I did get a chance to pop refraction, meld, and unload on someone, that damage was still there and absolutely worth it.

As for this character's ultimate...amazing. Absolutely amazing. The range on it, as mentioned by others here, is just outrageous, and really lets you control when and where fights are going to occur. They can be hotkeyed and triggered like remote mines, or a quick C, click, T will let you drop one nearby and set it off. Whether holding someone for a gang or restricting enemy mobility and escape possibilities in a team fight, it just plain works. They also provide a very tiny area of sight, and while it's not much, I won't complain about getting free red dots in common gank routes on my minimap that come right along with 50% slows. Saved both myself and my team with that.


Pitlord:
I really didn't like this character. I mean, he pushes really, really well. But so does, say, Furion, and he also gets to kill people. I just think Luci does strength caster better. Mainly, I feel like this is another character that takes too long to get off the ground.

His movement disable is a very powerful ability, but the first two levels of it are utterly worthless. An 0.75 second movement disable is little more than a stutter, and I can't say that 1.5 is much better. So you're invested 3-4 levels just to become borderline useful in that capacity. I guess you could say the same for Lion's Voodoo, but honestly, he's doing just fine. The fire AE is somewhat similar in that 5DPS is just a waste of his very limited early-game mana, and by the time he has the mana it takes, the spell had better be level 4 to do any relevant damage. Except you've also invested 4 levels in pit, and probably one in your ult. So you're level 9 by the time you can begin to perform your function. No thanks.

Yes, I skipped corpse explosion entirely. This ability is just a pain to reliably set up. It's unnecessary and functionless for killing creep. You can drop fire on their heads for that. And it is so slow and unwieldy that even if you manage to kill a wave of creep right on top of enemy heroes, you're not going to connect with a lot of explosion damage. And that's even with the ridiculously huge AoE it's got. I took stats, and was happier for it. He's got good survivability between his movespeed and the +2 strength ticks, so it worked out.


Far Seer:
Now this hero worked, even for being int melee. Vacuum wasn't putting up great damage numbers or anything, but it was something, and could really screw up the other team's plans. And a targeted 70DPS immolate? Yep, I'll take that. Great for farming, harassing, killing, whatever. And the mana cost wasn't prohibitive. The duration/cooldown could be, but for almost a double Radiance effect, I can see why. Now, Surge. Surge is great, possibly broken. It's like giving anyone Borrowed Time, and with a very short cooldown and tiny mana cost. It can also be used offensively, either with a character who can put out some damage, start a stun chain, or as a combo with that crazy 70DPS immolate. The unfortunate part about Far Seer is his ult. It just isn't functional. Images that die quickly and do almost no damage? I don't know, maybe if the other team is full of manta style users and the effect carries over(I haven't been able to test this yet) it would do something. But really, I'd rather use those 3 points to accelerate the gain in his other abilities and pump stats.

The other new heroes I have no personal experience with. Will played the new panda and was quite successful. He can put out pretty nice, consistent damage, and there's always a place for that. Spellshielding is nice as well. As for the undead, I dunno. Those zombies are worth something like 36 gold a piece, and only manage to do piercing damage. They're like a license to print money for any opposing hero with an AoE. His nuke and his debuff definitely do a nice job, though.


Overall, I'm not pleased. When Warlock and Alchemist came out, they were pretty broken, but were obviously useful. I still like them today, though they're not really top tier. Meepo in the right hands is obviously ridiculous, and Shadow Priest is one of my favorite characters. But these new guys are just lackluster as far as I can see. I do really hope(and expect) that they'll get better and more refined, so we'll see how that goes. As Templar Assassin is most my style, I've tried to make her work the most, and the current idea I've got for her would be either a small range increase when she's melded, or(and I think I like this better) if Meld would not only make her invisible, but also net her, and could then be toggled off a la Rot. Soooo many times I lost my bonus damage/debuff because her range(even maximized) is so cripplingly short that even a hero casually strolling by will be out of it before the hit lands very often.

Clearly, I have too much free time at my job.

[Jabberwhacky]

Been regged in their forums since '05 (I'm a fucking 05er) and have only made 2 posts. Never bothered to get safelisted.

Some of these heroes seem imba as shit. Templar getting +60 damage on 6 hits AND invuln to 6 hits for a measly 75 mana? Free observer wards starting at lvl 6? Dark Seer getting 6.5 out of 9 seconds 522 movespeed with a 75DPS aura? The Undying's 1000 AE lifedrain aura seems hardcore too.

[Ninajrr]

Can't say I was very impressed with any of the heroes. Huskar seems the most powerful (rigged, ranged strength = decent early game/harass with powerful lategame, this will be nerfed), and the only other skill I liked was the Storm Seeker's ultimate (fun). Dirge is risky because his zombies are -40- gold each, WAY too much.

Dark Seer/Pitlord were interesting but nothing special, and the Templar requires far to much work to reach her greatest potential, and even then is quite lacking in that.

Either way, nice to see this out. One step closer to the version which adds the hero from the hero contest >. Playoffs begin soon!

[vurt]

Generally, players are much better in TDA. The best thing, though, is that there is a shitlist policy, and it's strict. If you leave, you will be banned from TDA, and people are quite unwilling to do that.

There are a couple ways to get safelisted on TDA. 1) get an icon: 25 wins of any race in normal wc3, 2) get vouched by someone who is safelisted (though you won't be able to join the actual channel, just games), 3) get over 100 posts on the dota forums, or 4) just ask Icefrog nicely.

I'm on as vurtjibb on USEast if anyone wants to get owned some time.

[Ninajrr]

If you want to try some nonpub games but are to lazy to get TDA listed, try going to channel "Clan DXD", they have some bots set up that help people host games, most of the players are pretty good, but not overly obsessive. Good challenge. That's USWest, btw.

[Jabberwhacky]

What happens when you just get randomly disconnected in a TDA game? In the past month alone I've had this happen twice. The game pauses for a second (literally one second) and then "You have been disconnected." At this point I enter another game and usually get a "lol noob" tell for being a leaver.

And do they ever do EM games in TDA? I tried a "regular" game once and really did not like it. It seemed like you could really get fucked (as I did) by dying just once or twice and being WAY behind on gold. I vaguely remember playing for like 10 minutes before giving up and had never got anything above a circlet or two and some tangoes.

And and, after having played with the templar in an AREM game this morning, she isn't as imba as I thought. Having either no ranged or a very short ranged attack really hampers what I thought would be an imba +60 damage. Having windwalk (minus the walk) is nice, but that will wear off very shortly when people realize it's just like Sand King's sand storm and toss a stun where I disappeared. The traps are awesome. I didn't even have them laid out properly but they still enabled some good chases where we got kills that we otherwise would not have. When I get her again I plan on laying out groups of 3 to keep nice long slow on whoever may try to run.

[Ninajrr]

TDA has methods for determining if someone is disconnected purposefully or by accident. Traces are left of the method of disconnection when someone leaves and is reported to the game/detected by the Banlist. Usually they won't see it as a big deal. although you don't want it to happen often or people will become frustrated. Try to solve the problem, the scenario you reported sounds ironically like being Custom Hack Kicked, as that is exactly what happens (slight pause, disconnect).

TDA, as far as I know, does not host EM games, nor should they. EM is a huge downplay of skill in DoTA, and I highly recommend you play less EM games. Once SM (short mode) is released, expect that to become more popular and the new EM to dwindle out of existance. EM was never meant to be an easy mode, just a short mode. Now it is both, and will soon be divided into two more distinct modes where one has less harsh punishments (EM) and the other allows for easier pushes (SM).

Remember, it is very important to last hit, and do not expect to play late game in non-EM games. DoTA is based around early/mid game, not around items. but around skill.

[Zarcath]

Huskar is so fucking broken. If you can't stun lock him you're pretty much fucked.

[DeLLyz]

I don't think any of the new heroes are broken. Though I will say some of the skills are. I got to play all 6 heroes last night with friends in inhouses and it was a lot of fun.

Sacred Warrior sacrifices his life to do damage. His only mana ability heals him or his allies. He is really strong 1v1 but if you can stun him or do good burst damage he is done for since his damage doesn't get really good until he is 50%ish hp. Has an ability that raises his IAS by 8% and 8 damage every 7% of his hp lost. Has a stackable spear that does 12 damage per stack(5 max) that takes his life down everytime he uses it. His ultimate takes 40/30/23% of his current hp and does that amount of damage to his opponent plus slows 50% for 5 seconds.

The Undying is a great pusher. Summons zombies, has a heal/dd that depends on how many creeps/heroes/zombies are around that person at the time of the spell, and they brought back the heartstopper aura that used to be on necrolyte. His ultimate causes them to move 30% slower and at 25-35% more damage. Good damage, good heal, good push.

Pitlord is a lot of fun imo. HE IS A TEAM PLAYER. You aren't getting solo kills unless the other person is a moron. Has an AOE rain of fire, AOE corpse explosion, and an AOE lvl4 3 second stun. Sounds pretty good right? It gets better. His ultimate opens up a dark portal(which pings on the map for everyone) which you right click on and can teleport back and forth from the location he clicks on to the current location he casted the spell. Basically its a team teleport hi2u backdoor. I feel its going to get nerfed but its a really cool spell either way.

Templar Assassin is the weakest imo. She can go invis but cannot move.. though if they do come by you then you can do some nice damage out of invis and decrease their armor. Has an ability that gives you slight range(think Luna's range) and an ability that blocks 6 incoming spells/melee attacks but ALSO gives you (lvl4) 60 bonus damage for 6 attacks. The ulti for this hero is a techies wannabe but its still useful. The templar lays down traps lvl1(5) lvl2(8) lvl3(11) that slow enemies down 50% of their movespeed. I really enjoy these since you can lay them almost instantly for 15 mana and just press T to use the closest trap to the Templar.

Dark Seer has some interesting abilites. A shield that does 75 damage per second when near him that can be up all the time. An ability that gives him and another ally max speed for 6 seconds. Pretty nice for running or catching people. Cooldown is low on it so you can recast pretty much repeatedly. Also has "Vacuum" which sucks all units into 1 area which is amazing for team AOEs. The ultimate for this guy is weird.. it makes a wall of light and any hero who passes through it gets copied under Dark Seers control. Lasts 15-30-45 seconds. Pretty annoying when several heroes pass through it at once.

Storm Spirit is a really good hero killer. Can take up to 600(?) spell damage without actually taking damage. Has an ability that gives 80% attack speed increase for 15 mana per second(I think thats how it works). Also has a passive ability every 5 hits it does damage and a minor slow(think ursa's stomp but not as good). His ultimate is pretty good.. it takes everyone near him, including him and blinks them where he chooses in a short range. Good for chasing or running.

Most of the abilities I listed are the lvl 4 version or lvl 3 ultimate version. I didn't really feel like going into every detail and I may be slightly wrong I some things but I believe I got most of it right.

Feel free to correct me or elaborate if I messed something up. Ask questions if needed.

[Sidhe]

Playing more now that I'm home from work. Gotta say, once I got better at placement for using Templar Assassin's weird bleed through attack thing, I was farming like a fiend. Got ahead on items and I was +317 in no time. Very nasty.

[vurt]

Originally Posted by Jabberwhacky

What happens when you just get randomly disconnected in a TDA game? In the past month alone I've had this happen twice. The game pauses for a second (literally one second) and then "You have been disconnected." At this point I enter another game and usually get a "lol noob" tell for being a leaver.

And do they ever do EM games in TDA? I tried a "regular" game once and really did not like it. It seemed like you could really get fucked (as I did) by dying just once or twice and being WAY behind on gold. I vaguely remember playing for like 10 minutes before giving up and had never got anything above a circlet or two and some tangoes.

Like Ninjarr was saying, you can appeal TDA bans. There is a process to get around unfair bannings, but they don't usually happen. If you were disconnected immediately like you described, it may very well have been you getting kicked by the host, and that doesn't happen in TDA.

Higher level dota play is all about last hits. In em it's not that important, though it definitely gives you an edge. In non-em games though, if you're not last hitting, you're getting left behind. And yeah, a rough start in non-em is very tough to recover from, though not at all impossible.

[darksensei]

Hey vurt is TDA just on USEast or does it have a counterpart on west?

[vurt]

Originally Posted by darksensei

Hey vurt is TDA just on USEast or does it have a counterpart on west?

Unfortunately, it's really just East. TDA games do get together on West, but very rarely. There are plenty of west-coast players who do play on East for TDA, but they generally ping above 100. It's definitely playable, but you will feel the lag.

[Goltana_R-Zek]

Jabber, if it turns out its not custom kick (sounds like it could be) I used to have a similar problem, and it turned out my router would randomly boot me out of games because I didn't allow the port range (I had the specific port accepted, but one of the Wc3 ports is like 6771-6776 or something near that, its on the wc3 site..) anyway, I had to go into my modem and actually set the port forwarding to allow it. I know that's a bit vague/confusing, I could clarify it more in a PM if you'd like.

As for the heroes, I kinda feel like undying could use some tuning, along with Storm Spirit. Overall fun patch though, glad there's new stuff to fool around with. As far as TDA goes: /shrug, never had an interest in playing w/them, I find dota games just fine with my friends, never saw the need to play in TDA.

[DeLLyz]

Tell ya what.. TDA isn't high end games. You won't see tons of people last hitting. Sure there is generally alittle bit higher level of skill then in a pub but people are racist leavers in TDA just like pub.