FoH Warcraft 3: DOTA Community.

[frlolg]

Ranged bash is magic based, fyi.

[wild_whiskey]

Anyone here a heavy nightstalker player? I can't step it up with him. Tonight I played a game where I absolutely dominated the first 20 minutes.. was 9-0 or something, and we couldn't manage a win. I had treads, Satanic and Sange and seemed like I just couldn't do shit later on.

NS seems to face some harsh diminishing returns around lvl 14 as the late-gamers come out. What the hell do you do to keep him competitive with the new Lycan players who go Necro Book + Helm of the Dominator? Seems impossible, even when you have a huge lead from kills.

[Amzin]

Originally Posted by wild_whiskey

Anyone here a heavy nightstalker player? I can't step it up with him. Tonight I played a game where I absolutely dominated the first 20 minutes.. was 9-0 or something, and we couldn't manage a win. I had treads, Satanic and Sange and seemed like I just couldn't do shit later on.

NS seems to face some harsh diminishing returns around lvl 14 as the late-gamers come out. What the hell do you do to keep him competitive with the new Lycan players who go Necro Book + Helm of the Dominator? Seems impossible, even when you have a huge lead from kills.

Sange and Satanic don't stack, you'll just lifedrain. I would get satanic and buriza if you go that route, followed by butterfly if you can get the cash. I'd go Helm of Dominator, Crystalis, first, then finish either buriza (if you're doing well offensively) or satanic (if you need more hps). NS doesn't really need the extra move from S&Y, especially if you go BoT (you don't need the attack speed from Treads if you get a bfly).

Crippling Fear + 30% evade means you beat any dps hero except the troll warlord almost automatically. Plus your attack speed will be crazy from 30% IAS and +30 agility, and it still adds damage too. With buriza you can run in, fear, explode someone, and run off if you need to. Also, leading with your nuke can help a lot, since by the time they start running away it's usually refreshed again, and that's an extra 500ish points they take from it hitting twice.

Also, remember to spam Darkness (your ult) during the night, since time doesn't pass while your ult is going, you can make night last 2, 3, or 4 times longer.

[chu]

I absolutely hate naix. He's OP. I rape with him and get raped against him.

It's really his magic immunity that really makes him unstoppable as it's virtually impossible to disable him in endgame.

[wild_whiskey]

Originally Posted by Amzin

Sange and Satanic don't stack, you'll just lifedrain. I would get satanic and buriza if you go that route, followed by butterfly if you can get the cash. I'd go Helm of Dominator, Crystalis, first, then finish either buriza (if you're doing well offensively) or satanic (if you need more hps). NS doesn't really need the extra move from S&Y, especially if you go BoT (you don't need the attack speed from Treads if you get a bfly).

Crippling Fear + 30% evade means you beat any dps hero except the troll warlord almost automatically. Plus your attack speed will be crazy from 30% IAS and +30 agility, and it still adds damage too. With buriza you can run in, fear, explode someone, and run off if you need to. Also, leading with your nuke can help a lot, since by the time they start running away it's usually refreshed again, and that's an extra 500ish points they take from it hitting twice.

Also, remember to spam Darkness (your ult) during the night, since time doesn't pass while your ult is going, you can make night last 2, 3, or 4 times longer.

Ahh, shit I completely forgot that Satanic and Sange don't stack. There's my first mistake!

The game only made it to about 25 minutes or so, there was no way I could have picked up a butterfly after satanic. I think I ended up turning my Ogre axe into Sange even though my original plan was to try a BKB, wanted the extra HP from SNY since I was getting targeted during any and all team battles.

I'll try your plan though. Do you start with treads and turn them in later on? It seems like they add such huge solo ganking potential early game that its a huge money boost during the first two nights.

Have you played against a good Lycan since the buff? It's just stupid having Lycan + 2 wolves + centaur + alpha wolf + necronomicons chasing after you at max move speed, all of them rocking some +40 or whatever damage from Feral Heart + Howl. It's insane.

[Amzin]

I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but the lycan's aura doesn't increase movement speed, like a lot of people seem to think. It increases >attack< speed. The only movement speed those units would get would be from the necronomicon units, which is 3% per level (9% max). If he's able to take the time to get two dominated creeps, maybe hunt him down a bit more often in the woods :P Pretty sure a hand of midas insta-kills anything you can dominate, if it comes to it.

NS is definitely a king of 1v1, if the lycan is bringing minions, it's a lot harder. Magnus or Sven would fare better. Keep in mind rushing from Helm of Dominator to Satanic doesn't help that much usually, the helm is really damn good on its own and the 4300 gold can buy you a lot of other stuff. Actually, it can almost buy a Battlefury, which may help against the lycanhorde problem. Plus, use the helm yourself to grab centaur to stun lycan's goon squad.

[The Dauntless One]

A lot of people seem to think Feral Heart increases move speed because it use to increase move speed until the last patch.

[wild_whiskey]

Oh, I know. I meant with the Necronomicon guys. The +damage comes from Feral Heart.

[Cybsled]

Nightstalker is a fucking beast if leveled/itemed correctly. Crit/str/attack speed/bash will make you a gawd at night. Casters can't do a damned thing once you silence them.

[darksensei]

Originally Posted by The Dauntless One

A lot of people seem to think Feral Heart increases move speed because it use to increase move speed until the last patch.

I found last night to my displeasure that they had changed him. No bash on the wolves anymore either. Might just need a play style adjustment but he didn't seem as strong to me.

[Jabberwhacky]

I would say he's 10 times stronger, at least early game. His wolves may not bash or be invis, but they're fast as fuck and do a shit ton of damage, while taking a good bit themselves. So they won't get that initial hit or two when appearing from invis, but I still send them on a melee hero and they take out a large portion of his life by the time they die, and all it cost me was a bit of mana, while I still am able to last hit. The level 4 wolves kill ranged creeps in like 5 hits (total, 2-3 each), so even if the enemy hero is able to avoid the wolves, they help you creep immensely.

[wild_whiskey]

Yea, new Lycan you don't play quite the same, but I think he's a lot stronger now. No joke, you can send your wolves after a full HP zeus around lvl 7 and if he doesnt start running to the towers, he's going to die. It's crazy how strong they are now.

Also, Feral Heart is a passive on all minions (not just wolves) as well as Lycan, and Howl affects the whole map and gives a flat +dmg bonus, not a %-based bonus. I believe max level howl is +8 dmg on creeps and +40 on heroes. Lycan with 2 centaurs, necronomicon and 2 wolves is sick DPS.

[nu_11]

I'm Nu_11 on US East and nu11 on US West.

[Jabberwhacky]

Don't forget the Alpha Wolf which has a 30% damage aura, and of course, complements the 'wolf pack' nicely, except he's a fucking albino.

[Jabberwhacky]

Originally Posted by chu

I absolutely hate naix. He's OP. I rape with him and get raped against him.

It's really his magic immunity that really makes him unstoppable as it's virtually impossible to disable him in endgame.

Could anyone elaborate on Naix? I just played him today, pretty much for the first time since the changes. I went Vanguard - Treads - Heart and that's as far as I got by the time the game ended. I felt very strong 1v1 except they quickly figured out I couldn't chase for shit, so 2 guys would inevitably be there and just ping pong my ass.

I'm also not sure how you figure he's virtually impossible to disable. 4.75 duration on a 15 second CD? Mana seemed to be something of an issue too, as popping rage and wound would empty me right quick, whereas someone like Rattletrap can spam his 50 mana rocket and 75 mana stun-gun (and even 125 mana ult) all day with just a void stone / Bfury (practically).