Diablo 3 - General Discussion I

[Araxen]

You're on crack if you think people will start leaving in droves if Blizzard announces a new MMO that is 2+ years away. Maybe 6 months, but not 2 years or more. Heck a ton of people still are gearing up in the end game instances and WOTLK is close at hand. It's sort of pointless to go through all that gearing when it'll all be obsolete in less than 6 months and WoTLK goes live, but people still do it.

[Zarcath]

If it's not D3, it would make more sense for them to announce a Starcraft MMO, since SC2 is their next game out. They did WC3 and then WoW.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Araxen

You're on crack if you think people will start leaving in droves if Blizzard announces a new MMO that is 2+ years away. Maybe 6 months, but not 2 years or more. Heck a ton of people still are gearing up in the end game instances and WOTLK is close at hand. It's sort of pointless to go through all that gearing when it'll all be obsolete in less than 6 months and WoTLK goes live, but people still do it.

Yeah because they already have the game and there's nothing else to do. I'm still really into WoW but I wouldn't pay 40 dollars for an expansion to a game that would likely have it's live team poached to create a new MMO soon after going live.

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Mist

Yeah because they already have the game and there's nothing else to do. I'm still really into WoW but I wouldn't pay 40 dollars for an expansion to a game that would likely have it's live team poached to create a new MMO soon after going live.

Why would it's live team be poached? They have plenty of money to hire a new one.

I can see Blizzard very realistically pulling an SOE, and offering an all access subscription plan.

[Mist]

Hiring a new team of what, though? Good MMO designers from all those other top MMO companies? Oh wait. You can't buy the kind of experience a whole new MMO team would need, without drawing a lot of experienced people from your current project. The MMO industry isn't like any other industry, there aren't a bunch of pros walking around ready to be bought out for the right price.

[Araxen]

If Starcraft Universe or World of Diablo are coming out in 2 years people will still buy WoTLK. Just because you won't doesn't mean the 9,999,999 other customers won't. 2 years is a long fucking time and knowing Blizzard it'll turn into 3-4 years before it'll actually get released.

I know I'm still getting WoTLK regardless even if they release the new MMO in November of 2009. I need something to keep me occupied till then. Plopping down $40 for an expansion that'll keep me entertained for at least a year? Money well spent.

[TKarrde]

Uh, we already know their third development team is making an MMO, though. Drysc confirmed that months ago. And Pardo confirmed a new game is being announced at WWI. So they already have a team developing an MMO. Why would those developers start working on something else, instead of continuing on with the MMO?

When you said live team, I assumed you meant GMs and CMs and all of that shit. We already know that they have another MMO team.

[Mist]

Live team = the people who create the patches and add in the additional content post release. If there's another MMO that's moved into the production stages already you can bet on having less frequent patches and less additional content.

No matter what, Blizzard is in a situation where they'll likely be competing with themselves. If it's Diablo 3, non-MMO, non-subscription based, then that will likely draw off a ton of their casual WoW players. If it's a new MMO, then they'll be directly competing with themselves and stretching their teams thin at some point, sooner or later.

[TKarrde]

And why would those developers be any different than the ones who made the game? The process of creating new patches and additional content is the exact same process as bugfixing and adding new content as the game is developed.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

And why would those developers be any different than the ones who made the game? The process of creating new patches and additional content is the exact same process as bugfixing and adding new content as the game is developed.

Uh, because they'd have to move some of their experienced people over to the new MMO team.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Mist

Uh, because they'd have to move some of their experienced people over to the new MMO team.

The process is more important than the people. Once you have an existing methodology that is proven to be effective it doesn't take 10 year vets to employ it. As more people join the team and become 'experienced' others are free to move on to other things.

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Mist

Uh, because they'd have to move some of their experienced people over to the new MMO team.

...Why? Those people have ALREADY been moved, if anyone needed to be moved at all.

There. Is. Already. A. New. MMO. Team.

Period.

You don't need special developers for a "live" team. You use the same ones you used to develop the rest of the game. The game development process is just a much more sped up, much less refined, patching process. Or rather, patching is just a much slower, more tested, more refined, development process.

The same people are used in both. And we already know they have an MMO development team. This is something we KNOW ALREADY.

Will this get through to you if I repeat it enough? Or am I just bashing my head against the wall?

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

Or am I just bashing my head against the wall?

Fun isn't it.

If people seriously won't buy WoTLK because a new mmo is due in 2 years...people are even more retarded than I already gave them credit for..and that was really low to begin with.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by TKarrde

...Why? Those people have ALREADY been moved, if anyone needed to be moved at all.

There. Is. Already. A. New. MMO. Team.

Period.

You don't need special developers for a "live" team. You use the same ones you used to develop the rest of the game. The game development process is just a much more sped up, much less refined, patching process. Or rather, patching is just a much slower, more tested, more refined, development process.

The same people are used in both. And we already know they have an MMO development team. This is something we KNOW ALREADY.

Will this get through to you if I repeat it enough? Or am I just bashing my head against the wall?

They likely already have programmers creating a new client, more programmers creating the basic server code and engineers designing the server architecture. They likely have even more programmers creating the tools that will be used to create the world and dungeons and script the encounters. They probably have artists creating massive amounts of concept art and 3D animators taking that initial concept art and building the basic player and weapon models and their animations. Many of these things will be done by people who originally worked on WoW. Most of the toolset for creating WoW content is as done as it ever will be. They'll likely never be radically reinventing the WoW client and server architecture. They're not making new a dozen new player models anytime soon. So this entire phase of a new MMO can all be done without any impact on WoW. You don't need huge teams of client/server programmers on your LIVE team for a game.

Once the tools are built for the new game, basic client connected to the first servers up and running, they will have to start moving in their top level content designers to define and create the major gameplay systems, and their subordinates to start scripting bosses, building dungeons, writing and implementing quests, etc. Soon after this they'll need to rapidly build a QA team to start iterating on and testing this content as it gets created. I don't see how this phase of a new MMO project could be done without pulling active people off the WoW live team.

I really love your last line though, like you're trying to get some of your insights through MY thick skull, as if I wasn't a QA tester for a major MMO title.

[TKarrde]

Originally Posted by Mist

They likely have programmers creating a new client, more programmers creating the basic server code and engineers designing the server architecture. They likely have even more programmers creating the tools that will be used to create the world and dungeons and script the encounters. They probably have artists creating massive amounts of concept art and 3D animators taking that initial concept art and building the basic player and weapon models and their animations. Many of these things will be done by people who originally worked on WoW. Most of the toolset for creating WoW content is as done as it ever will be. They'll likely never be radically reinventing the WoW client and server architecture. So this entire phase of a new MMO can all be done without any impact on WoW. You don't need huge teams of client/server programmers on your LIVE team for a game.

Once the tools are built for the new game, basic client connected to the first servers up and running, they will have to start moving in their top level content designers to define and create the major gameplay systems, and their subordinates to start scripting bosses, building dungeons, writing and implementing quests, etc. Soon after this they'll need to rapidly build a QA team to start iterating on and testing this content as it gets created. I don't see how this phase of a new MMO project could be done without pulling active people off the WoW live team.

I really love your last line though, like you're trying to get some of your insights through MY thick skull, as if I wasn't a QA tester for a major MMO title.

Oh lord, a QA tester. You got to sit there and do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again to make sure something worked, and then act like it gives you some special insight into the process. Thank god we have your amazing industry insider opinion at hand. Without it, I'm sure we would forever be lost in the darkness of ignorance.

You have an inflated sense of self worth over a low skill position at a company that makes MMOs. Cool.



So, since the WoW dev team wasn't full of experienced people, the game sucked, right? Oh, wait. All you need is a handful of people in charge who have experience. The devs behind Diablo 1 and 2 went off and made Flagship. HGL sucked. Experienced devs don't mean shit. As has been pointed out, you need a process that works, and people to guide it. They don't have to rip apart the WoW live content teams. All they have to do is take a handful of WoW developers, move them off the project, and move them over to the new one, and promote some of the other people to the former place, and bring in some new kids on that team.

And if you think that the infrastructure work for a new MMO will be anywhere near as demanding as it was for WoW, you're retarded. The tools for creating content will be updated - not remade from scratch. etc.

Will WoW content designers be working on the new MMO? Certainly. Will everyone be yanked? Certainly not. Will it effect WoW development in any way? Certainly not.

You need experienced leaders and a refined process. The rest is filler. And Blizzard has both of the former, and a huge supply of the latter.