Diablo 3 - General Discussion I - Page 5

Stil · 05-05-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cad

Hehe, you play too much Fantasy MMO! I didn't mean Tank as in Warrior/Paladin.. I mean tank as in big fucking vehicle with a gun on it. The 20-25 people drive/crew the tanks.

And yea, if you can have a way for "High Command" (say, a guild) to put out "missions" (LFM!) for soloers/small groups to do which will contribute to the larger group objective in a pvp environment.. that'd be sweet. I'm for it.

Ouch... though I did understand that you were talking about tanks I thought it was more "Halo" style, where one person drives a tank. S'okay, I'm used to looking stupid. And hell yeah, I'd play that game too.

Zehn - Vhex · 05-05-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cad

Maybe a sci-fi MMO would be a good excuse to get out of the tank/heal/nuke dynamic? Maybe make success dependent on other factors, such as kiting, avoidance, target selection, etc - make it more action-oriented or something, I dunno.

Problem with sci-fi MMO concept is that in order to make it realistically appealing, you would have to introduce such concepts as aiming. And shooting straight is a skill I'd wager a good 90% of the MMO population lacks. Most can't even handle jumping the ledge in Wailing Caverns...and you can forget about making the jumps through BFD.

Stil · 05-05-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Problem with sci-fi MMO concept is that in order to make it realistically appealing, you would have to introduce such concepts as aiming. And shooting straight is a skill I'd wager a good 90% of the MMO population lacks. Most can't even handle jumping the ledge in Wailing Caverns...and you can forget about making the jumps through BFD.

Fix that by actually having skill be a counter to time invested. Have "auto target trackers" be purchasable, but have that be something which requires hundreds of hours invested. Your newbie "unit" comes complete with autoaim. You can either upgrade to do more damage/range/etc. but lose the ability to autotarget, or you can wait until you can afford to do both.

Skilled players then can skip the upgrade, whereas newbs can't. Time and skill can BOTH be used for progress.

I think of it akin to the advanced targetting computer in the original Privateer- where you had to buy the radar which gave you the little cross to show you how much to lead your target. If you were good, you never needed it, and that was the last thing you got. If you sucked, you got it first.

Khorum · 05-05-2006, 04:02 PM

A game like the one Darph described and others have expanded upon would be fun and would do well with the momentum of a Blizzard property, but it doesn't strike me as the sort of format that Blizzard would take for a Starcraft MMOG. I'm not sure a MMOFPS is the most intuitive/natural context for a Starcraft MMOG. Although it's definitely a good fit seeing as how projectile/ranged based combat would be a large proportion of the game. The actual objectives, locales, characters and motivations could work just as Darph explained, but the actual format could be radically different.

I'll admit right now that I'm no longer any good at FPS's---actually, I'm not sure either way because I simply haven't felt like playing one in years. The problem with MMOFPS is that it's synaptic and visceral and reflexive---it's fast and requires good concentration. It's fun and exciting for a narrow band of individuals (usually younger ones; with Y chromosomes) and less than interesting for everyone else.

This is precisely the sort of game design Blizzard avoided for the accessible, democratic and rewarding newbie experience in World of Warcraft. Since WoW, the world has discovered that gamers who don't enjoy FPS's or RTS's aren't necessarily hostile to the notion of subscribing to MMOGs, and the industry is unlikely to forget the lesson.

If I were to speculate on how a Starcraft MMOG would play, I'd consider history and approach the challenge from Blizzard's perspective. This would take only a few moments as there's one overarching Blizzard strategy that has YET to fail them:

As with Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo... let's just Plagiarize Games Workshop!

One format Blizz has yet to lift from GW is their excellent 'Warbands' games. Originally a part of their 'Realms of Chaos' series, the Warbands concept eventually became a standalone game set in the 40K universe called Necromunda. Necromunda is practically SCREAMING to be turned into a MMOG.

In brief, it would behave like an RPG but it plays like a small-scale RTS game. A vaguely similar concept would be a DOTA MMOG but with persistent followers who level and get geared and travel with you. You start with one character, you gain friends and followers until you have a small 'band' of people with you.

This size of your band would be governed by your leadership skill (it's like a Charisma skill, except it's useful) but it rarely exceeded 8 to 10 character with most people playing with 3 or 4 cherished and well-developed characters. As your character progressed in experience, wealth, fame or infamy, his stats gear and disposition improves. As would your followers'.. Your warband members grow in strength and experience, and you find/assign equipment amongst them as you would your character.

Think of it as a DOTA MMOG (seems like a no-brainer doesn't it?) where you grow not just your character but a whole party. But in the classic MMORPG style your character and his followers would progress in a larger range and in a richer context. In Necromunda, there was final death for Warband members, although it was rare, it could the same in a MMOG.

Like I said, Darph's objective-based world maps, guild-centric economies and domination politics would fit into such a game transparently. In fact necromunda encouraged such a thing although it never laid concrete rulesets for it. Rank-based 'experience' systems would govern which players can control how many grouped bands... and matured guilds could 'raid' as organized armies.

And if Blizzard doesn't do it, I'm pretty sure someone else will. I've always been curious why this hasn't been made into a MMOG sooner, with the preponderance of small scale Hero-RTS's and classic MMORPGs around. About the only difference with the Necromunda model is that it's sci-fi and lends to furious firefights.

Darph · 05-05-2006, 04:09 PM

The economy would be very cool.

Commander screen:

We, (Protoss) have an income of 100,000,000 mineral units and 50,000,000 Vespane gas per day from our 5 planets.

Our installations require 20,000,000 M.U. and 10,000,000 Vespane gas per day for upkeep.

We have 2,000,000,000 stockpiled M.U. and 400,000,000 Vespane gas.

An invasion of Planet 19 would cost 500,000,000 MU and 100,000,000 VG to build our basic buildings: http://www.battle.net/scc/protoss/bbuild.shtml with 50 reavers, and 10 shuttles shipped in with the invasion force.

This invasion would further cost us 250,000,000 M.U. per day and 50,000,000 Vespane per day.

This mineral rich planet has 750,000,000 MU and 75,000,000 of stockpiled resources readily capturable and has a max capacity of 25,000,000 MU per day and 10,000,000 Vespane per day.

A 5 day Basic war would have a total cost of:
1,750,000,000 M.U.
350,000,000 VG

We would gain this much from our other planets:
400,000,000 MU /
200,000,000 VG

Leaving us with:
650,000,000mu
450,000,000vg

The rest would come out of our reserves, from missions (capture this zerg readily available/stockpiled resources)

In order to build our Advanced buildings, http://www.battle.net/scc/protoss/abuild.shtml and thus build more of each vehicle, temp upgrades, etc.. we will need 1,000,000,000 MU and 475,000,000vg

By capturing the majority of the available resources, we would then have 1,400,000,000 total, leaving us with 400,000 MU.

However, we do not have enough vespane gas to do this immediately. But, our scounts indicate there is a Terran Vespane Silo in another combat zone, we will need to capture the Terran Vespane gas silos in order to build our Advanced buildings on the Zergling front on planet 19 (Terran scounts might discover this plot and attempt to stop you via a dynamic combatquest system)

K..seriously.. Im done.

--
Edit: The FPSMMO thing isnt necissary. The WoW combat system would fit in just fine as it is both fast and fun and would allow for + chance to hit, crit and other technologies.

I have edited my previous post to reflect this opinion.

Zarcath · 05-05-2006, 04:47 PM

I for one wouldn't mind playing Diablo 3. WC3, especially DOTA, is still taking up my RTS time. Diablo 3 will probably have small b.net/player consistant world servers along the lines of NWN, which would be great. The old 8 player per game limitation, along with the act seperation in multiplayer made the game world feel smaller.

and yes, after the first run, act 3 solely consisted of "who's got the flail? WP please, kill boss, onto act 4".

Whoops didn't realize we were on page 2. Darph's Starcraft MMO sounds like fun, if you want a good example of casuals+hardcore FPS action play BF2. If Blizzard made SC into an FPS and ripped off BF2's engine code for code it would be fantastic.

Cybsled · 05-06-2006, 07:13 AM

The one key issue for any SC MMOFPS or RPG would be to start off simple and work your way to what you're describing.

Having to focus on economy, conquering, pooled upgrades, and the like initially would be pretty daunting.

For a basic structure, I would start with the following

a) Player starts on some obscure outpost/planet, aka noobie zone. Purely PVE. They learn basic abilities, go on quests to attack enemy NPCs, drive some basic transportation, etc. More or less a really interactive bootcamp with some twists. Introduce extremely basic econ concepts...player has to accumulate enough whatever to be able to afford to leave the planet. Make it a non-tangible item so it can't be traded.

b) Player gains access to an intergalactic transport. Gets dumped off at racial HQ, which serves as a hub. They are assigned missions, which are instanced. They do these instances with other players. Some are PVP, some are PVE, and some are half n half. Slowly introduce the PVP aspects. Start to introduce basic mechanics like holding a resource point and capturing installations. Successfully completing these quests starts a small accumulation of resources and rank for your guy. These serve as levels, as it were, opening up more complex missions. They also slowly increase a shared pool of resources for everyone...do more missions, and it helps everyone.

c) At a certain point, start to introduce the Eve-Online aspect. Start to allow players to cruise around and find planets to control. These planets offer bonuses to your side as well as more immediate bonuses to the people who lead the spearhead, as it were. Implement guild + race based econ/tech bonuses. Create a mechanic that rewards both the uber-guild and the small guy.

Runnen · 05-06-2006, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cybsled

The one key issue for any SC MMOFPS or RPG would be to start off simple and work your way to what you're describing.

Having to focus on economy, conquering, pooled upgrades, and the like initially would be pretty daunting.

For a basic structure, I would start with the following

a) Player starts on some obscure outpost/planet, aka noobie zone. Purely PVE. They learn basic abilities, go on quests to attack enemy NPCs, drive some basic transportation, etc. More or less a really interactive bootcamp with some twists. Introduce extremely basic econ concepts...player has to accumulate enough whatever to be able to afford to leave the planet. Make it a non-tangible item so it can't be traded.

b) Player gains access to an intergalactic transport. Gets dumped off at racial HQ, which serves as a hub. They are assigned missions, which are instanced. They do these instances with other players. Some are PVP, some are PVE, and some are half n half. Slowly introduce the PVP aspects. Start to introduce basic mechanics like holding a resource point and capturing installations. Successfully completing these quests starts a small accumulation of resources and rank for your guy. These serve as levels, as it were, opening up more complex missions. They also slowly increase a shared pool of resources for everyone...do more missions, and it helps everyone.

c) At a certain point, start to introduce the Eve-Online aspect. Start to allow players to cruise around and find planets to control. These planets offer bonuses to your side as well as more immediate bonuses to the people who lead the spearhead, as it were. Implement guild + race based econ/tech bonuses. Create a mechanic that rewards both the uber-guild and the small guy.

So basically it would be : WoW from level 1 to 20 then WoW Battlegrounds from 21 to 50, and EVE from 51 to 60. Hehe.

Cybsled · 05-06-2006, 09:22 AM

Pretty much ;p

Arduz55 · 04-19-2008, 02:07 AM

World of Raids :: Index

Quote:

Here is what *could* be one of the biggest news to come for Blizzard fans, BlizzPlanet (known to have a tight relationship with Blizzard) and Diablo 3 News Community are both displaying a countdown with twelve days left on it, so the *fateful day* is May 1st.

What's going to happen in 12 days? There are several theories, one of them being the acquisition of Diablo3.com domain name by Blizzard, but we will know for sure on May 1st. Knowing BlizzPlanet, we seriously doubt it's an hoax.

Interesting. Wonder whats going on with this, maybe some good news finally.

Azrayne · 04-19-2008, 02:28 AM

Don't we already go through this every 6 months or so?

As much as I'd sell my first born for a Diablo sequal, I'll believe it when I see it up on the Blizzard website, not a day beforehand.

Lost Ranger · 04-19-2008, 02:28 AM

God I hope it is Diablo 3. I was just thinking about giving D2 another play through the other day so this is great news for me. It is my favorite Blizzard title hands down.

fucker · 04-19-2008, 05:40 AM

D2 is an almost perfect game

i say almost because they should erase from history chapter 3. fuck the jungle chapter really

EDIT - what im wondering tho is...what storyline D3 will have? havent we killed the 3 major demons and 2 of the minors? unless that was a "no really death" killing i cant see what we will fight now

Indiana · 04-19-2008, 05:49 AM

The shattering of the worldstone could lead to an extra-dimensional invasion! Not sure why it would still be called Diablo though.

Torrid · 04-19-2008, 05:58 AM

A modern Diablo game with MMO features will be a license to print money.

View Poll Results: What is your opinion of Diablo 3's art direction.
It's fine and I trust the game to be fun.	880	71.60%
It sucks, but I'm sure the game will be fun anyway.	156	12.69%
It sucks and it will detract from the fun.	52	4.23%
I don't care.	141	11.47%
Voters: 1229. You may not vote on this poll

05-05-2006, 04:02 PM	#64 (permalink)
Khorum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 4,594 -36 Internets	A game like the one Darph described and others have expanded upon would be fun and would do well with the momentum of a Blizzard property, but it doesn't strike me as the sort of format that Blizzard would take for a Starcraft MMOG. I'm not sure a MMOFPS is the most intuitive/natural context for a Starcraft MMOG. Although it's definitely a good fit seeing as how projectile/ranged based combat would be a large proportion of the game. The actual objectives, locales, characters and motivations could work just as Darph explained, but the actual format could be radically different. I'll admit right now that I'm no longer any good at FPS's---actually, I'm not sure either way because I simply haven't felt like playing one in years. The problem with MMOFPS is that it's synaptic and visceral and reflexive---it's fast and requires good concentration. It's fun and exciting for a narrow band of individuals (usually younger ones; with Y chromosomes) and less than interesting for everyone else. This is precisely the sort of game design Blizzard avoided for the accessible, democratic and rewarding newbie experience in World of Warcraft. Since WoW, the world has discovered that gamers who don't enjoy FPS's or RTS's aren't necessarily hostile to the notion of subscribing to MMOGs, and the industry is unlikely to forget the lesson. If I were to speculate on how a Starcraft MMOG would play, I'd consider history and approach the challenge from Blizzard's perspective. This would take only a few moments as there's one overarching Blizzard strategy that has YET to fail them: As with Starcraft, Warcraft, and Diablo... let's just Plagiarize Games Workshop! One format Blizz has yet to lift from GW is their excellent 'Warbands' games. Originally a part of their 'Realms of Chaos' series, the Warbands concept eventually became a standalone game set in the 40K universe called Necromunda. Necromunda is practically SCREAMING to be turned into a MMOG. In brief, it would behave like an RPG but it plays like a small-scale RTS game. A vaguely similar concept would be a DOTA MMOG but with persistent followers who level and get geared and travel with you. You start with one character, you gain friends and followers until you have a small 'band' of people with you. This size of your band would be governed by your leadership skill (it's like a Charisma skill, except it's useful) but it rarely exceeded 8 to 10 character with most people playing with 3 or 4 cherished and well-developed characters. As your character progressed in experience, wealth, fame or infamy, his stats gear and disposition improves. As would your followers'.. Your warband members grow in strength and experience, and you find/assign equipment amongst them as you would your character. Think of it as a DOTA MMOG (seems like a no-brainer doesn't it?) where you grow not just your character but a whole party. But in the classic MMORPG style your character and his followers would progress in a larger range and in a richer context. In Necromunda, there was final death for Warband members, although it was rare, it could the same in a MMOG. Like I said, Darph's objective-based world maps, guild-centric economies and domination politics would fit into such a game transparently. In fact necromunda encouraged such a thing although it never laid concrete rulesets for it. Rank-based 'experience' systems would govern which players can control how many grouped bands... and matured guilds could 'raid' as organized armies. And if Blizzard doesn't do it, I'm pretty sure someone else will. I've always been curious why this hasn't been made into a MMOG sooner, with the preponderance of small scale Hero-RTS's and classic MMORPGs around. About the only difference with the Necromunda model is that it's sci-fi and lends to furious firefights. Last edited by Khorum; 05-05-2006 at 04:12 PM..

05-05-2006, 04:09 PM	#65 (permalink)
Darph Lays the Pipe Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Corp Por Posts: 1,126 +33 Internets	The economy would be very cool. Commander screen: We, (Protoss) have an income of 100,000,000 mineral units and 50,000,000 Vespane gas per day from our 5 planets. Our installations require 20,000,000 M.U. and 10,000,000 Vespane gas per day for upkeep. We have 2,000,000,000 stockpiled M.U. and 400,000,000 Vespane gas. An invasion of Planet 19 would cost 500,000,000 MU and 100,000,000 VG to build our basic buildings: http://www.battle.net/scc/protoss/bbuild.shtml with 50 reavers, and 10 shuttles shipped in with the invasion force. This invasion would further cost us 250,000,000 M.U. per day and 50,000,000 Vespane per day. This mineral rich planet has 750,000,000 MU and 75,000,000 of stockpiled resources readily capturable and has a max capacity of 25,000,000 MU per day and 10,000,000 Vespane per day. A 5 day Basic war would have a total cost of: 1,750,000,000 M.U. 350,000,000 VG We would gain this much from our other planets: 400,000,000 MU / 200,000,000 VG Leaving us with: 650,000,000mu 450,000,000vg The rest would come out of our reserves, from missions (capture this zerg readily available/stockpiled resources) In order to build our Advanced buildings, http://www.battle.net/scc/protoss/abuild.shtml and thus build more of each vehicle, temp upgrades, etc.. we will need 1,000,000,000 MU and 475,000,000vg By capturing the majority of the available resources, we would then have 1,400,000,000 total, leaving us with 400,000 MU. However, we do not have enough vespane gas to do this immediately. But, our scounts indicate there is a Terran Vespane Silo in another combat zone, we will need to capture the Terran Vespane gas silos in order to build our Advanced buildings on the Zergling front on planet 19 (Terran scounts might discover this plot and attempt to stop you via a dynamic combatquest system) K..seriously.. Im done. -- Edit: The FPSMMO thing isnt necissary. The WoW combat system would fit in just fine as it is both fast and fun and would allow for + chance to hit, crit and other technologies. I have edited my previous post to reflect this opinion. __________________ Darph - Fires of Heaven. "Train simulators are a game." - Fansy the Famous Bard

05-05-2006, 04:47 PM	#66 (permalink)
Zarcath is a little tea pot. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 6,465 +75 Internets	I for one wouldn't mind playing Diablo 3. WC3, especially DOTA, is still taking up my RTS time. Diablo 3 will probably have small b.net/player consistant world servers along the lines of NWN, which would be great. The old 8 player per game limitation, along with the act seperation in multiplayer made the game world feel smaller. and yes, after the first run, act 3 solely consisted of "who's got the flail? WP please, kill boss, onto act 4". Whoops didn't realize we were on page 2. Darph's Starcraft MMO sounds like fun, if you want a good example of casuals+hardcore FPS action play BF2. If Blizzard made SC into an FPS and ripped off BF2's engine code for code it would be fantastic. Last edited by Zarcath; 05-05-2006 at 04:55 PM..

05-06-2006, 07:13 AM	#67 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,284 +49 Internets	The one key issue for any SC MMOFPS or RPG would be to start off simple and work your way to what you're describing. Having to focus on economy, conquering, pooled upgrades, and the like initially would be pretty daunting. For a basic structure, I would start with the following a) Player starts on some obscure outpost/planet, aka noobie zone. Purely PVE. They learn basic abilities, go on quests to attack enemy NPCs, drive some basic transportation, etc. More or less a really interactive bootcamp with some twists. Introduce extremely basic econ concepts...player has to accumulate enough whatever to be able to afford to leave the planet. Make it a non-tangible item so it can't be traded. b) Player gains access to an intergalactic transport. Gets dumped off at racial HQ, which serves as a hub. They are assigned missions, which are instanced. They do these instances with other players. Some are PVP, some are PVE, and some are half n half. Slowly introduce the PVP aspects. Start to introduce basic mechanics like holding a resource point and capturing installations. Successfully completing these quests starts a small accumulation of resources and rank for your guy. These serve as levels, as it were, opening up more complex missions. They also slowly increase a shared pool of resources for everyone...do more missions, and it helps everyone. c) At a certain point, start to introduce the Eve-Online aspect. Start to allow players to cruise around and find planets to control. These planets offer bonuses to your side as well as more immediate bonuses to the people who lead the spearhead, as it were. Implement guild + race based econ/tech bonuses. Create a mechanic that rewards both the uber-guild and the small guy. __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

05-06-2006, 09:22 AM	#69 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,284 +49 Internets	Pretty much ;p __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

04-19-2008, 02:28 AM	#71 (permalink)
Azrayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Awsome Posts: 2,727	Don't we already go through this every 6 months or so? As much as I'd sell my first born for a Diablo sequal, I'll believe it when I see it up on the Blizzard website, not a day beforehand.

04-19-2008, 02:28 AM	#72 (permalink)
Lost Ranger Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,002 -4 Internets	God I hope it is Diablo 3. I was just thinking about giving D2 another play through the other day so this is great news for me. It is my favorite Blizzard title hands down.

04-19-2008, 05:40 AM	#73 (permalink)
fucker no funny comment sorry Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,803 -27 Internets	D2 is an almost perfect game i say almost because they should erase from history chapter 3. fuck the jungle chapter really EDIT - what im wondering tho is...what storyline D3 will have? havent we killed the 3 major demons and 2 of the minors? unless that was a "no really death" killing i cant see what we will fight now Last edited by fucker; 04-19-2008 at 05:43 AM..

04-19-2008, 05:49 AM	#74 (permalink)
Indiana This is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 711 +13 Internets	The shattering of the worldstone could lead to an extra-dimensional invasion! Not sure why it would still be called Diablo though. __________________ Indiana the Silent Club Fu Bristlebane We want to be the Blizzard of massively multiplayer gaming - John Smedley

04-19-2008, 05:58 AM	#75 (permalink)
Torrid Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,269	A modern Diablo game with MMO features will be a license to print money.

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