Diablo 3 - General Discussion I

[Etwynn]

Frankly I'm dissapointed with D3.

I'm not following it too closely but there seem to be only three changes:
3d graphics (lots of complaints here in terms of style)
world map
"destructable environments" (more like walls that you click which fall down)

Unless the changes in world map come with a major fucking diablo storyline awesomeness, including a dynamic world (loldumar), this game will have literally nothing innovative.

Diablo I was revolutionary for it's time. Diablo II was evolutionary--it took the same basic gameplay and added good features like waypoints, skill trees, and more classes. Diablo III appears like it's going to be not much more than another Diablo II.

If they wanted to make a new game, then they should have changed the combat by zooming the camera in 2-3x and implemented hitboxes with limb-specific damage effects and ragdoll physics. The lack of innovation for diablo 3 makes me much less hopeful about blizzard's next MMO. I'm predicting that it will just be WoW with defensive targeting.

[chaos]

Yeah, not sure what the fuck you're on. D2 was an amazing sequel, imo outshined the original.

[Azrayne]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

Frankly I'm dissapointed with D3.

I'm not following it too closely but there seem to be only three changes:
3d graphics (lots of complaints here in terms of style)
world map
"destructable environments" (more like walls that you click which fall down)

Unless the changes in world map come with a major fucking diablo storyline awesomeness, including a dynamic world (loldumar), this game will have literally nothing innovative.

Diablo I was revolutionary for it's time. Diablo II was evolutionary--it took the same basic gameplay and added good features like waypoints, skill trees, and more classes. Diablo III appears like it's going to be not much more than another Diablo II.

If they wanted to make a new game, then they should have changed the combat by zooming the camera in 2-3x and implemented hitboxes with limb-specific damage effects and ragdoll physics. The lack of innovation for diablo 3 makes me much less hopeful about blizzard's next MMO. I'm predicting that it will just be WoW with defensive targeting.

That would kinda be a whole other game though. Diablo is point and click, I doubt people would accept anything else.

[Etwynn]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

That would kinda be a whole other game though. Diablo is point and click, I doubt people would accept anything else.

I'm not talking about a MMOFPS here. It would still be a point and click game with fixed camera angles. You point at the limb you want to attack and your character runs up and hits him. It's basically the same combat system as d1/d2, but more advanced. Anyway, my point is that with Blizzard's resources they should be pushing the envelope, but they're clearly just cashing in on their IP. I don't blame them, there's a point when a company becomes too powerful to want to risk innovating. I guess I shouldn't have expected anything new from blizzard, that's never been their strong side (except in d1 I suppose).

But really, groundbreaking games invent new genres, they don't just add new features to old genres. I can only take so many Warcraft/starcraft RTS games before I get sick of them, which is why I won't be buying starcraft 2. It's beginning to look like the same stagnation is happening in the diablo franchise.

[Azrayne]

When have Blizzard ever been about innovation and risk taking though?

They take a concept that works, streamline it, add some cool crap, give it their own spin and polish the hell out of it, then sell it for $$$. That's what their games have always been.

[chaos]

I'm willing to bet that Diablo fans don't really give a shit about inventing a new genre, I'd bet most want a similar style game with new art, combat functions, environments, story, etc. The whole innovation for the sake of innovation argument was played out years ago, not every game innovates, sometimes games just expand on familiar themes and guess what? That's what the fans want. Expansion on the theme of the previous games. Diablo 3 is going to kick ass.

[Frax]

Originally Posted by chaos

I'm willing to bet that Diablo fans don't really give a shit about inventing a new genre, I'd bet most want a similar style game with new art, combat functions, environments, story, etc. The whole innovation for the sake of innovation argument was played out years ago, not every game innovates, sometimes games just expand on familiar themes and guess what? That's what the fans want. Expansion on the theme of the previous games. Diablo 3 is going to kick ass.

^

[Tallyn]

Originally Posted by chaos

I'm willing to bet that Diablo fans don't really give a shit about inventing a new genre, I'd bet most want a similar style game with new art, combat functions, environments, story, etc. The whole innovation for the sake of innovation argument was played out years ago, not every game innovates, sometimes games just expand on familiar themes and guess what? That's what the fans want. Expansion on the theme of the previous games. Diablo 3 is going to kick ass.

I would be ecstatic to get exactly this.

[Sharmai]

Translation: Bring back dungeon keep with new graphics and leave the rest alone.

Oh sorry wrong game....

[Zerai]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

When have Blizzard ever been about innovation and risk taking though?

They take a concept that works, streamline it, add some cool crap, give it their own spin and polish the hell out of it, then sell it for $$$. That's what their games have always been.

They do sometimes.

For example heroes in WC3.

But regardless, sometimes it's about fixing what was wrong with the last game and making it all better instead of trying to invent a new genre.

[Venijk]

I'm not sure where I said I Diablo 2 wasn't an awesome game. I liked it significantly more than Diablo 1. They were just very different games, in many ways.

Diablo's strength lies in it's fast paced slaughter. I'd be impressed if they could find a way to implement meaningful hitboxes without slowing down the game, and still being relevant and fun. Also not letting it devolve into headshots, dismembering zombies and skeletons could be cool.

[Etwynn]

" AM Grats to you, Mr "I'm not following it too closely" but can still critique it, here's your -internet"

fuck the rep system. Instead of telling me why i'm wrong you just -neg me.

[Azrayne]

I'm still not sure where you're coming from, sure they made a lot of advances with D2, but the gameplay at it's core is almost identical.

One thing that bugs me about D2 is that it doesn't have the same level of atmosphere as D1 does. In D1, the dungeon feels fucking 'evil' It just gives off this really dark, creepy atmosphere, and you don't get that in D2 really, for whatever reason, outside of a few specific moments. The graphics are better, the gameplay is better, but somewhere they lost out on that 'oh god this place is not somewhere I would want to be' feeling.

I think the music is part of it. Don't get me wrong the soundtrack to D2 is phenomenal, but it's a lot more I gues ambient, or atmospheric. No more random samples of people screaming or crying out in agony from the distance, stuff like that. You listen to the act two soundtrack and it doesn't sound at all creepy or demonic, it just sounds like random desert middle eastern type music. Could be the soundtrack for aladdin for all you'd know.

[Etwynn]

Originally Posted by chaos

I'm willing to bet that Diablo fans don't really give a shit about inventing a new genre, I'd bet most want a similar style game with new art, combat functions, environments, story, etc. The whole innovation for the sake of innovation argument was played out years ago, not every game innovates, sometimes games just expand on familiar themes and guess what? That's what the fans want. Expansion on the theme of the previous games. Diablo 3 is going to kick ass.

It's not innovation for the sake of innovation. It's the fact that you can only play essentially the same game so many times before you get bored of it, no matter how good that basic game concept was originally. I'd expect them to take it in at least slightly a new direction for D3, but from what I can tell there's really nothing new. Someone pointed out the blizzard doesn't innovate, they just add new features to old games. I agree with this--i don't actually expect blizzard of all game companies to invent a new genre. But I was expecting at least something new in D3. Like I said, the world map better be fucking awesome or else D3 will bring nothing new to the table.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Etwynn

It's the fact that you can only play essentially the same game so many times before you get bored of it, no matter how good that basic game concept was originally.

Apparently not, because Diablo 2 is always around #20 in number of players on Xfire and Diablo Battle chest is in top 20 PC games sold this month.