Online Poker

[Eida]

*Mods, feel free to move/delete this post as its not exactly an MMO... however this forum gets the most activity and I feel there are many people here who may have an interest in this.

For those of you not aware, online poker is booming and many people are making a lot of money off this. The money is steadily moving from the dumb to the smart, and now would be a great time for anyone with an interest in making $$$ from home by crushing others at a game grounded in math.

I'm going to start an affiliate business (my online casino pays me to get people to play). The most common affiliate tactic is to spam mercilessly everywhere and accept payments from the casino on a per-member signup, typically $50-$75 for every player they recruit that plays a set number of raked hands.

I'm planning to do something a little different. Instead of taking a payment in the form of signups, I will be paid based on how much rake the players that I sign up contribute per month (MGR). Fish that signup and go bust immediately are not going to be my target audience... it will be in my interest (and those that sign up through me) to find people with a desire to get a lot of hands in and have a desire to improve their game.

A little background on myself:

A year ago I was a broke college student:

March 2005: Heard about online poker from a friend on the east coast. I have been a lifelong gamer so the concept of making money playing a game aroused my interest immediately. Deposited $50 into some random site and immediately lost it playing $1/$2 6-max limit. Tried again, same results.

April 2005: Took another shot, deposited $100 and played NL25-50. Ran it up to $300 before once again losing it all. This was demoralizing. A week later, after pouring through strategy forums and really trying to get a grasp of the fundamentals, I tried again. This time using a $20 bankroll playing .05-.1 limit. During this time period I was working two jobs and playing approximately 2-3 hours after midnight. I was doing something right, however, because after 10k hands I was in the green and beating the nanolimits. Hooray. Bought pokertracker (www.pokertracker.com). It told me that my hourly rate was $2/hr. Yay.

May 2005: Progress brought me from .05-.1 to .5-1. As I grew more confident, I began to play more than one table, and I added more (ended up at 8, the max my current casino would allow).

June 2005: Switched casinos (moved to the Crypto network). My main game was .25-.5 (pounds) and 10 tabling that game gave me a steady hourly rate of $25/hr. Quit both my jobs after saving enough for 3 months of bills.

September 2005: Made the switch to my current casino after 100k hands at .25-.5 (pounds). My win rate for the 100k hands was ~8.0bb/100, which is excellent and I wish I had moved up earlier.

October 2005: Felt confident enough in my limit game to tackle $2/$4. I began playing only four tables at once, but quickly became acclimated to the different table texture and began 10-tabling again. After my first week, my hourly rate was $50/hr. I thought I was invincible. A few days later, I suffered my biggest downswing to date ($1100). My bankroll was fine (my bankroll management is uber-conservative), but my ego hurt and I decided to play through it (after setting a stop-loss of $2k). Downswing lasted 3 days and weathering the storm, I grew more confident and resolved some of the minor leaks in my game. My winrate grew steadily throughout the next few months.

February 2005: My main game is still 2/4 -- yet 50 percent of my hands are also at 3/6 and 5/10. Hourly rate is stable at $70 (win rate = 2.5bb/100 @ 500+hands/hour), and I'm enormously overrolled for the games I play currently. Everyone I know is telling me to move up, yet I'm still content with my current stress-free table selection and have pushed back tackling the mid-stakes limit until March. The skill differential between 2/4 - 5/10 and higher is large.

Anyway -- I'm passionate about poker and enjoy discussing strategy and reviewing hand histories. I think reviewing hand histories with others is educational for both parties.

I won't try to confuse the issue -- what I'm looking for are people who have an interest in capitalizing on the enormous opportunity that is online poker. In exchange for my coaching services via email and AIM, I will get paid based on how many hands you play. Its 100 percent in my interest to turn anyone under me into a winning poker player, and those people with a drive to learn are who I'm looking for. If you like to kick back a beer and gamble it up with $100 in tournaments on a weekend, you'd be better off with other affiliates who would offer you a free chip set or something else flashy.

Any questions: contact me at eidal12345@yahoo.com or Eidal12345 on AIM. I have no problem sharing charts/graphs from Pokertracker to establish my proficiency, and look forward to hearing from some of you.

Last clarification: I want to turn other people into winning players. Poker changed my life and is building my portfolio at a thrilling rate. I want to share this with other people along with some mutual profit.

[Bizanich]

/boggles at the stupidity of posting this here.

[razazi1]

If you want to talk poker there is a great forum called http://www.twoplustwo.com/ . Pros like Greg Raymer and such post there. Anyway good luck.

it isnt very interesting when you rant about your hands. pretty dull to be honest.

[Sabyn]

I am only interested if you offer rakeback on Party.

[WillzZz]

For me, the best system is a rakeback system. You're better off trying to sell people on that, because if you're truly looking for "players who will play a lot of hands and turn into great players, while being rewarded", then you (and they) will profit more with that system. If you're unfamiliar, it will allow you to get a % of the rake for hands you played*.

*Played = were dealt cards.

For someone who plays 10 tables at a time, I imagine you're using it right now.

Personally, I've never used Pokertracker but I'm using PokerEdge. (www.poker-edge.com) Same idea, but a centralized database. I'm considering picking up PT as well, but haven't yet. Some of the stats in P-E are priceless (like VP$IP, voluntarily put money into the pot. A great tight/loose rating system)

I used to play limit 2/4, but after seeing the huge database pokeredge has, limit tables are RIDICULOUSLY TIGHT, and have some of the best players on the tables. So I play NL $50 or NL $100. Finding NL tables with PE makes it pretty easy for even a SUPERTIGHT beginner who wants to start making a living do it. You can see the fish and calling stations, you can see the crazy people, and you can see the supertights (being raised allin by someone with a low preflop aggression rating? Ok I'll fold these kings. Twice that situation has come up in the last week, and I've saved a whole $100 on those two hands alone.)

The stats it gives you on yourself are great, and are already helping me tighten up some parts of my game. Even for the generally uninformed, you can see what the stats to become a 'shark' are, and work to push your stats in that direction. It has some nice charts, as well, to detail which hands people are likely raising based on their stats, and which hands they're calling with.

But I have a feeling this will be moved. Good thing I spent 5 minutes typing a response!

Originally Posted by Sabyn

I am only interested if you offer rakeback on Party.

No kidding

[Sabyn]

I use PT now, what kind of centralized database does PE have? Do you download and upload other players and your database? Does it work with PAHUD?

[Eida]

I highly encourage those looking for PP RB to talk to me.

[Quineloe]

MMORPG poker definatly should have PVP combat after cheating.

[Eida]

Those who babble about online poker being "rigged" or accusing the house of cheating are just weak players who won some cash in a fishy home game and get slaughtered online

Actually the most common trend is for weak players to luckbox their way into the money in a tournament, think they're actually skilled, then go lose it all to the sharks at 5/10. Only then, is online poker rigged.

[Duppin]

You'll be lucky if this only gets rickshawed.

[Soriak]

Personally, I play on www.betandwin.com - I think the site might be off-limits to Americans though, as it also serves as a sportsbook. (they are illegal in some US states, I believe?)

What I win in poker, I lose in ice hockey though... damn canadians :P

They also have a referal program, but you can only send invites through e-mails. No percentage cut, but each party gets 10euro once the refered person waged 30 euro. Not exactly a lot, but if someone is into sportsbooks - beats getting nothing :P

imo not that many americans playing on the site, so it's been easier to actually win in my experience. Compared to other sites where on most tables you end up playing against people who do it for a living...

[Pillik]

Greg Raymer is an idiot. And if you are making money playing 2/4, 3/6 then you must be grinding hard or getting lucky. There's no moeny to be made 2/4, 3/6 unless you are playing no limit.

So with that in mind. Have you ever won a 1000 player tourney? When you do then your l33t.

[Sabyn]

Originally Posted by Pillik

Greg Raymer is an idiot. And if you are making money playing 2/4, 3/6 then you must be grinding hard or getting lucky. There's no moeny to be made 2/4, 3/6 unless you are playing no limit.

So with that in mind. Have you ever won a 1000 player tourney? When you do then your l33t.

Are you trolling, or just bad at poker? From the tourney comment, I assume trolling, but I can't be sure.

[Eida]

Pillik - lets do the math shall we. A good win rate for limit is 2bb (big bets)/100 hands. A great win rate is 3bb/100.

6(2) = 12

10 tabling party poker = ~550 hands an hour.

12(5.5) = $66/hour.

So, not everyone can 10 table. And no one multitables 40 hours a week. I'm aware of that. Yet making it sound like you need to play $30/$60 to get paid is completely false. Even playing a mediocre game of winning poker @ 1bb/100 pays more per hour than many people's jobs, and when you throw in the quality of life improvement (setting your own hours, working from home or ANYWHERE with internet access, vacations whenever)... it becomes clear that at least in 2005/2006, there is much to be said for poker as an income stream.

EDIT: Since learning to play poker, I've seen multiple correlations between skill at an MMO and skill at poker. That was the reason for throwing this post up. So sorry to disturb the status quo of [WoW post #3028]. You didn't have to open this thread, you know.

[Zinke]

Originally Posted by Pillik

Greg Raymer is an idiot. And if you are making money playing 2/4, 3/6 then you must be grinding hard or getting lucky. There's no moeny to be made 2/4, 3/6 unless you are playing no limit.

So with that in mind. Have you ever won a 1000 player tourney? When you do then your l33t.

Anyone who wins a 1000 player tournament will be the first to tell you it had little to do with their skill.
Even Hellmuth, who considers himself the best poker player, says that any specific pro (including himself) is a huge longshot to win the WSOP events when you've got thousands of people playing. Playing your best game, and only going all-in on hands where your 90% or better to win, the odds state you'll still eventually get busted out.
You'll have to go against people many times, and one of those 9-1 underdogs will out draw you over the course of the tournament.