Defense of the Ancients Allstars

[wamphyr]

Nah nothing is better than dota . Call me crazy but i think its more entertaining and more exciting than WOW.

I dont know why people in the US don't play it. In my country everywhere you go .. dota dota dota ... In US it's like "dota ? yeah we play a bit somethimes ". In here i swear its a real dotamania.

[Dandai]

DOTA is the only thing I play online any more really. I have a stretch CS:Source every now and then but I don't play that nearly as regularly as DOTA.

On the Eastern server (Azeroth) there's a pretty big playerbase ala Clan TDA. It's big enough that you have a wide variety of skill levels to play with/against but small enough that you do ocassionally play with the same people.

[Ronne]

I never had much luck with TDA games, I never play normal wc3 so I couldn't ever get an icon, and they still haven't safelifted me after applying 3 times on their various forum incarnations, so fuck 'em. I usually play a couple game before bed, but pubbies are pretty much meaningless.

[Dandai]

Originally Posted by BobTheMoron

I never had much luck with TDA games, I never play normal wc3 so I couldn't ever get an icon, and they still haven't safelifted me after applying 3 times on their various forum incarnations, so fuck 'em. I usually play a couple game before bed, but pubbies are pretty much meaningless.

Ahh yes, to remedy my lack of normal game playing (and sucking) I just gave them 7 bucks at their forum. I figured I'd rather get safelisted and play TDA than keep playing pubbies. I mean, I payed SOE 9.95 for 3 years and 12.95 for 2 years after that. One payment of 7 bucks wasn't gonna hurt, especially for such a great mod.

[gavinrad]

whoever was badmouthing juggernaut is a total noob, hes one of the best heroes in the game, and definitely isn't a one-trick pony.

[DJ3]

Originally Posted by gavinrad

whoever was badmouthing juggernaut is a total noob, hes one of the best heroes in the game, and definitely isn't a one-trick pony.

I think he was speaking more to the fact that Omnislash is stupid, and not to Jugg in the whole as a hero. Any skill that assures a one-button, no danger, instant, undefendable victory in any scenario is poor design. And that's exactly what Omnislash is if you happen to wander into a jugg in the river, or at the shops, or anywhere in the forest, or just after your creeps die.

[Murr]

Originally Posted by DJ3

I think he was speaking more to the fact that Omnislash is stupid, and not to Jugg in the whole as a hero. Any skill that assures a one-button, no danger, instant, undefendable victory in any scenario is poor design. And that's exactly what Omnislash is if you happen to wander into a jugg in the river, or at the shops, or anywhere in the forest, or just after your creeps die.

same with Razorback's goo. That shit should scale more linearly with casts, assraping my move speed with one instant cast 20 mana spell = weak fucking sauce. If I run into razorback with anyone but a str hero or someone with a long duration stun I'm fucked.

[wamphyr]

Haha i knew it . When i saw this thread here i thought... hmm ... Dota on the fires of heaven forums. There will be no talks about balance in here. None at all. Next thing you know you will start complaining about itemization.

[Ronne]

Originally Posted by DJ3

I think he was speaking more to the fact that Omnislash is stupid, and not to Jugg in the whole as a hero. Any skill that assures a one-button, no danger, instant, undefendable victory in any scenario is poor design. And that's exactly what Omnislash is if you happen to wander into a jugg in the river, or at the shops, or anywhere in the forest, or just after your creeps die.

Omnislash isn't THAT good, jesus, there are only a handful of weak int heros it will kill from full health, and only then if they haven't gotten soul booster ect.

[DJ3]

Really? I've never really had much of a problem with Razorback. He's pretty weak during some parts of the game, and doesn't stand up well in head to head with other melee's until he's got some leech and a basher, and by that point any other melee will have comparable items and still rape him. Goo is only what, 20% slow on the first cast? And five second duration. He's also vastly underplayed; you rarely see him at all. He just doesn't have the brute strength of the more idiot-friendly melees like Skeleton King, Sven, or Pudge. Ursa Warrior reminds me a lot of Razorback, but is vastly more dangerous, as his damage scales linearly with his health. Not to mention the free five instant hits which stack +25 damage each. That guy scares the fuck out of me, even as a strength melee, he'll cut you down in seconds.

If you want to complain about an overpowered snare, look no further than the new Faceless Void. Have you played against a Faceless since 6.13? He did not seem like a character that needed a buff. He already had bash (which is one of what I call the "big three" melee abilities: bash, leech, and crit) as well as the most insane disable in the entire game (AE six second lockdown) and the most insane defensive skill ever devised. (20% stackable evasion which works against SPELLS as well as melee) Now, he has a 1300 (which is a lot) range blink. Except it's not just a blink. Where he lands, it does a 60% (six-zero) snare and slow. So you've got a 25% bashing hero who can teleport onto you from a mile away, snaring and slowing you at the same time, and lock you (and everyone nearby) for six seconds if he feels the need. And then, he can teleport back out. For some reason, not many people are playing him yet, not in lameass pubs at least. It's a good thing. He's ludicrous, and will likely be changed soon.

Originally Posted by BobTheMoron

Omnislash isn't THAT good, jesus, there are only a handful of weak int heros it will kill from full health, and only then if they haven't gotten soul booster ect.

Yeah, I play most intelligence characters, and try to come up with ways to keep them viable late game when they're basically free kills for the melees. I still think you're vastly underestimating Omnislash, if you're the only person and it's hitting you on all hits, you're pretty much fucked unless you're a bigger, badder strength melee. And not everybody has to be a strength melee.

Right now, I'm big on Tinker. Rearm makes my day like none other. Rearming my boots of travel for free teleports, rearming Linken's to make myself spell immune, rearming Mekansm to spam heal my entire team, rearming Manta to make images at will, or hell, rearming his actual skills and doing missile barages from the safety of the forest. He's by far the most fun I've had with any hero, there's so much more variety to what you can do with him, and most of his stuff requires some thought.

[Zinke]

Originally Posted by The Dauntless One

or play a sand king, burrow in and use epicentre to kill everyone (lv6-11)
that guy needs no items to do some damage

What? I haven't played DOTA since before WoW came out, don't know htat hero, and I don't know why you directed it at my comments.

[Ronne]

Originally Posted by DJ3

Really? I've never really had much of a problem with Razorback. He's pretty weak during some parts of the game, and doesn't stand up well in head to head with other melee's until he's got some leech and a basher, and by that point any other melee will have comparable items and still rape him. Goo is only what, 20% slow on the first cast? And five second duration. He's also vastly underplayed; you rarely see him at all. He just doesn't have the brute strength of the more idiot-friendly melees like Skeleton King, Sven, or Pudge. Ursa Warrior reminds me a lot of Razorback, but is vastly more dangerous, as his damage scales linearly with his health. Not to mention the free five instant hits which stack +25 damage each. That guy scares the fuck out of me, even as a strength melee, he'll cut you down in seconds.

Bristleback is 100% pure assbeat if done right. He's just very unpopular for some reason, so you don't see the gayness he can put out very often. I am curious though, I think his spike armor skill may be reducing spell damage from behind, which seems really really broken. I haven't had time to test it right yet, need someone I know to get on b.net to test it properly.

If you want to complain about an overpowered snare, look no further than the new Faceless Void. Have you played against a Faceless since 6.13? He did not seem like a character that needed a buff. He already had bash (which is one of what I call the "big three" melee abilities: bash, leech, and crit) as well as the most insane disable in the entire game (AE six second lockdown) and the most insane defensive skill ever devised. (20% stackable evasion which works against SPELLS as well as melee) Now, he has a 1300 (which is a lot) range blink. Except it's not just a blink. Where he lands, it does a 60% (six-zero) snare and slow. So you've got a 25% bashing hero who can teleport onto you from a mile away, snaring and slowing you at the same time, and lock you (and everyone nearby) for six seconds if he feels the need. And then, he can teleport back out. For some reason, not many people are playing him yet, not in lameass pubs at least. It's a good thing. He's ludicrous, and will likely be changed soon.

His bash and evade I never had a problem with. The evade he really needed, he was too frail before he got the spell evasion upgrade, now he atleast has a chance of getting in close with heavy nukers. His blink is probably a bit insane, having longer range than all other blinks, with a pretty large AE slow to go with it. It's cooldown is fairly long though if I remember right, too long to even really use twice in one encounter, counting the 6 free seconds from chronosphere.

Right now, I'm big on Tinker. Rearm makes my day like none other. Rearming my boots of travel for free teleports, rearming Linken's to make myself spell immune, rearming Mekansm to spam heal my entire team, rearming Manta to make images at will, or hell, rearming his actual skills and doing missile barages from the safety of the forest. He's by far the most fun I've had with any hero, there's so much more variety to what you can do with him, and most of his stuff requires some thought.

Rearm probably needs to go, or not affect any items at all. It should tell you something when it's far my productive to rearm a multitude of items than it is to actually use your own skills past like level 15. Did they even fix helm of dominator + rearm? I haven't played tinker in ages, that used to be about as gay as you can get. RRAWR 300 creep base zerg 4tw!

[Zehn - Vhex]

The only problem I have with games like DOTA is it becomes extermely repetative and I play non-MMO's to get away from that. I stopped playing games like CnC and StarCraft when it became about who had the most macro's.

WHich is funny because I've played HOMM3 for the last gajillion years every morning with my dad and that game is the definition of repetition.

[The Dauntless One]

Originally Posted by Zinke

What? I haven't played DOTA since before WoW came out, don't know htat hero, and I don't know why you directed it at my comments.

um that hero is probably a bit overpowered on the lower lvls
he has a cryptlord type stun but moves him to the end of the stun (1.5s)
he has sandstorm...which does damage and he becomes invis for 80 seconds
a AOE explosion (270damage) that happens when he gets the killing blow
and his ultimate is 110damage per pulse and slows for 4seconds
at lvl 7 he can stun for 340 damage and use ult to instanly kill someone up till about lvl 11 or so UNLESS you ass rape them then u can kill them for a few more lvls but his abilities start to suck later on

[DJ3]

I actually like Bristleback in games. He seems more like what most melees should be, from a caster standpoint. He can't rape you from behind the creepline with 300 damage stun hammers, and then walk over and pound on you. He's got to get in range, beat on you, and then that'll trigger his pure beatdown mode. And he gets a skill to help him get into melee range, but it's got a short duration, and it's not a lameass ranged stun and it can't be used as a nuke. You get a chance to fight back when you see Bristleback coming for you. Never heard anything about his back armor working on spells though.

The cooldown on the Void blink is actually only around ten seconds. So early/mid game, if he does get in trouble, it'll easily be back up by the time he has to run for it, even without Chrono. And that's not to mention just using it solely for defensive purposes, blinking 1300 feet away from ganks makes him near invincible until you get some heavy stun or Rhasta/Lion style disable.

The main gayness of it is early game. You can pair Void with any other melee, and if they're in lane versus any caster or most agility characters, it's pretty much free kills. Have the void tele on top of them, snaring them and (likely) landing at least one bash, and the other melee can easily march over and help beat the guy to death rather quickly. Early game, when negotiating the creepline and harassing are your focus, giving a strength/bash melee a snare+blink seems borderline stupid.

Rearm works with Helm of the Dominator, but I've personally never seen anyone go that route. The only things worth charming are the big centaur, the big ursa warrior, and the big satyr. Given that the charms aren't actually permanent, (20 minutes I believe) you won't be able to find many worthwhile charmables in that time period. If you send 300 level 2 kobolds and trolls to zerg your enemy base, it'll just be a few thousand free gold for their best AE character. Something like Sven would have an orgasm when he saw all that free money marching towards him.

They'd have to completely remake the tinker character to get rid of rearm. The fact is, the items are his basis, and it's not like anyone is going to get all the items I listed in a single game. In most pubs, in situations where I do most the killing, and farm every creep wave with March of the Machines, I can barely get Boots of Travel, Guinsoo, and SOMETIMES Manta Style or Linken's by the end. And that's assuming we win, and by the time I get Guinsoo and Linken/Manta, the game is essentially over. So mainly, he gets to abuse the fuck out of the Boots of Travel, which makes him who he is.