30 Adventure points for a LDON raid that takes 2-3 hours is NOT cool

Qhue · 09-12-2003, 04:56 AM

The raid we tried last night was a very nicely done raid. Lots of new quirks to it that seperated it from the usual sort of "clear trash, MT the boss" sort of gameplay.

The end treasure in the chests was VT quality, not horrible but nothing to write home about. Four items in total dropped as seen below. However getting only 30 adventure points for the exercise just seems plain wrong when people could easily have earned 200 or more by doing normal adventures in the same time span.

Siddar · 09-12-2003, 05:19 AM

Well when you considering once you get strat down for that encounter it will probaly take a 60 to 90 minutes to finish and drops VT level gear with more upgrade slots then normal VT gear I think you did perty well.

Consider that if say it gave 150 adventure points then most would just do raids all day to crank out max points and higher level gear.

Truth is for that level gear you probally should have gotten 10 adventure points tops.

FuckYou · 09-12-2003, 05:40 AM

Since these raids are always available, i.e. you can do one at any time and get loot, the points should be lower. I can't really see loot-on-demand coupled with inherently higher points being balanced.

Group for points, raid for loots.

feressa · 09-12-2003, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FuckYou
Since these raids are always available

Once every 5 days for each theme. Loot looks reasonable for a VT guild if you can get augs that fill in the resists and add a slightly better effect than grim aura.

One thing I'm not clear on: if there just one raid for each theme?

Brodda Thep · 09-12-2003, 07:33 AM

Our current guess is that there are several different raids per theme. Just each one at a different difficulty level. Like each theme has a VT level raid, Elemental level raid, and time level raid. The time level raid will rape any guild at the moment. Which is good.

I think we did the same raid as Qhue did. Since we got some of the same items. It was pretty easy. We had done another the night before and the trash hit for 1400. It was fairly difficult. Decent rewards though when we won.

We did another yesterday, trash also hit for 1400 or so, but all of it was red con. We got about 30-60min in and only cleared 25% of the place when we failed due to what we think was too many deaths. When we failed all the named despawned. Also this raid, trash mobs seemed to drop items with 80-100hp. Nothing special but there were some random drops.

THe only real problem I have right now is that we can't seem to tell what difficulty we will get. The one I think Qhue is talking about I don't think would work with mobs hitting for 1400. That raid is designed around getting adds, and adds that hit that hard, and were that hard to mez/root would destroy anyone. So choosing hard or normal seems to have no bearing on the difficulty level of raids.

Even when we beat the elemental level raid we only got 30pts. I think it should be 200. If I am raiding I don't have time to do adventures. How else can I get points?

Jovec · 09-12-2003, 08:16 AM

Quote:

If I am raiding I don't have time to do adventures. How else can I get points?

If I am adventuring I don't have time to raid. How else can I get loot?

I think the loot-for-points tradeoff is pretty fair. Sort of like raid experience, you aren't going to get an AA per hour, but you are not getting zero experience either.

-Jovec

FuckYou · 09-12-2003, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Once every 5 days for each theme.

My mistake.

Kodylan · 09-12-2003, 08:27 AM

Quote:

If I am adventuring I don't have time to raid. How else can I get loot?

Uhm...hello? Have you right-clicked your local area wayfarer adventure merchant today?

Maegril · 09-12-2003, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kodylan
Uhm...hello? Have you right-clicked your local area wayfarer adventure merchant today?

So you put in your time in terms of raids, get the loot out of there, plus a modest point increase, or you put in your time in adventure, get pretty much around the board utter crap for drops, but better point returns. What's the problem?

If it was zero points you'd have a case. But basically the bitch is "I could do 2-3 adventures in this time and get 5x as many points!" If you want points, go do that. However, you don't get what are some very nice base items for upgrades just falling off of mobs that way. So far, there's nothing that really comes close to, say, the FT V ring that just dropped in the raid. And what's out there is 1k+ points for stuff that's quite inferior. That's far more time investment in adventuring than a single person's time investment in raiding. Does it equal out in the end, in terms of time invested/points earned/dropped gear? It's a bit early to tell, really, but the balance would be completely broken if you got more, or even equal points for doing the raid, plus the raid drops.

Do it enough and you'll get the points to upgrade the significantly better raid drops anyway. Akin, as someone posted above, to doing enough raids and getting AA, even though someone who wasn't raiding could crank out far better AA than someone who was. Don't have time to AA/point grind because you're raiding all the time? So? Assumably the raid provides ample reward for the time investment, and it's not like you're totally stagnant in the other aspect. Compare that to the flip side, where if you just point grind/AA grind, you're still not going to end up with a base item that's anywhere near the raid drops.

Algol Devilstar · 09-12-2003, 09:21 AM

Some very interesting raids.. One we did had a boss mob that had about 14 mobs connected to each other. If you allowed one to stay unmessed for very long it would call its friends. Very easy to wipe out when you consider 14mobs and a mini boss against 36 people. Was a very frustrating raid.

Brutul Tarew Marr · 09-12-2003, 10:14 AM

Sounds kinda like saying "why would you raid boss mobs when you can get more AA grouping?" Raids have always been for the loot that drops.

Kodylan · 09-12-2003, 10:54 AM

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcv11281/ldonstuff.JPG

That's some of the stuff we got off our couple raids...other stuff I don't have screenshots of.

First two came off the mistmoore elemental level raid, along with a 25ac any slot type augment for rog/shm/rng. Other earring is from a vex thal level rujark raid.

Edited to change to a link, screenshot that big is a bad idea for an image.

Brodda Thep · 09-12-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

If I am adventuring I don't have time to raid. How else can I get loot?

You can group to get loot and points. I can't do the same. There are no items in those dungeons even on hard that I could use. But I have seen some Ssra level items drop out of the hard level adventures, worthless to me, but nice for other people who raid.

The items I have seen are only good because of the slots that they come with. So I need points to make them worth anything.

Oriestes · 09-12-2003, 01:02 PM

And even aug'd most of the items would be sub-par, thank fucking god. try raiding a non-LDoN zone if you dont like getting so little points for your hours of work. Honestly..

Kodylan · 09-12-2003, 03:21 PM

No, augmented they'd be better than what a person that raid is intended for could get outside of ldon raids, you fucking dipshit.

09-12-2003, 04:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
Qhue Tunare's most surly gnome Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sunny Upstate NY Posts: 947 +5 Internets	30 Adventure points for a LDON raid that takes 2-3 hours is NOT cool The raid we tried last night was a very nicely done raid. Lots of new quirks to it that seperated it from the usual sort of "clear trash, MT the boss" sort of gameplay. The end treasure in the chests was VT quality, not horrible but nothing to write home about. Four items in total dropped as seen below. However getting only 30 adventure points for the exercise just seems plain wrong when people could easily have earned 200 or more by doing normal adventures in the same time span. Attached Images

09-12-2003, 05:19 AM	#2 (permalink)
Siddar Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 213 -5 Internets	Well when you considering once you get strat down for that encounter it will probaly take a 60 to 90 minutes to finish and drops VT level gear with more upgrade slots then normal VT gear I think you did perty well. Consider that if say it gave 150 adventure points then most would just do raids all day to crank out max points and higher level gear. Truth is for that level gear you probally should have gotten 10 adventure points tops. Last edited by Siddar : 09-12-2003 at 05:26 AM.

09-12-2003, 01:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
Oriestes I love dead things Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 90 +0 Internets	And even aug'd most of the items would be sub-par, thank fucking god. try raiding a non-LDoN zone if you dont like getting so little points for your hours of work. Honestly.. Attached Images __________________ Oriestes Souldefiler, Level 56 Necro Relyna, 12th Monk Orienae, 12th Cleric (bot in training!) Seventh Hammer Oriestis Desaru, Level 47 Paladin Oriestes Del'Ter, Warlord (Stolen) Xegony "Classes are not that out of balance -AbsorEQ"

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09-12-2003, 05:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
FuckYou snape kills razorgore Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,704 -1 Internets	Since these raids are always available, i.e. you can do one at any time and get loot, the points should be lower. I can't really see loot-on-demand coupled with inherently higher points being balanced. Group for points, raid for loots.

09-12-2003, 07:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
Brodda Thep Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 370 -1 Internets	Our current guess is that there are several different raids per theme. Just each one at a different difficulty level. Like each theme has a VT level raid, Elemental level raid, and time level raid. The time level raid will rape any guild at the moment. Which is good. I think we did the same raid as Qhue did. Since we got some of the same items. It was pretty easy. We had done another the night before and the trash hit for 1400. It was fairly difficult. Decent rewards though when we won. We did another yesterday, trash also hit for 1400 or so, but all of it was red con. We got about 30-60min in and only cleared 25% of the place when we failed due to what we think was too many deaths. When we failed all the named despawned. Also this raid, trash mobs seemed to drop items with 80-100hp. Nothing special but there were some random drops. THe only real problem I have right now is that we can't seem to tell what difficulty we will get. The one I think Qhue is talking about I don't think would work with mobs hitting for 1400. That raid is designed around getting adds, and adds that hit that hard, and were that hard to mez/root would destroy anyone. So choosing hard or normal seems to have no bearing on the difficulty level of raids. Even when we beat the elemental level raid we only got 30pts. I think it should be 200. If I am raiding I don't have time to do adventures. How else can I get points?

09-12-2003, 09:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
Algol Devilstar Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The NW Posts: 3,497 +0 Internets	Some very interesting raids.. One we did had a boss mob that had about 14 mobs connected to each other. If you allowed one to stay unmessed for very long it would call its friends. Very easy to wipe out when you consider 14mobs and a mini boss against 36 people. Was a very frustrating raid.

09-12-2003, 10:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
Brutul Tarew Marr Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun. Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 955 -2 Internets	Sounds kinda like saying "why would you raid boss mobs when you can get more AA grouping?" Raids have always been for the loot that drops.

09-12-2003, 10:54 AM	#12 (permalink)
Kodylan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,089 +2 Internets	http://home.earthlink.net/~kcv11281/ldonstuff.JPG That's some of the stuff we got off our couple raids...other stuff I don't have screenshots of. First two came off the mistmoore elemental level raid, along with a 25ac any slot type augment for rog/shm/rng. Other earring is from a vex thal level rujark raid. Edited to change to a link, screenshot that big is a bad idea for an image.

09-12-2003, 03:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
Kodylan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2,089 +2 Internets	No, augmented they'd be better than what a person that raid is intended for could get outside of ldon raids, you fucking dipshit.