Melee Re-Balancing

[Grabbit Allworth]

Had some folks reply to this post thinking I wrote it.. this is not my post... I passed it on from another board to provoke some discussion. Most importantly.....IT's NOT real.




Proposed Melee balancing plan:

This plan is designed to change the OPTIONS for melee characters and boost their damage production by a moderate margin.


Solutions (General 2H)
-All PoP 2H-only AAXP abilities will now affect any weapon in the primary hand, be it 1H/Shield, Dual Wield, or 2H.
-2H weapons with delay lower than 28 will now have an appropriate 2H damage bonus which is ALWAYS better than the 1H counterparts.
-ALL 2H weapons have had their damage bonus scaled to be better than a 1H weapon of the same damage delay if it should happen to exist.

Solutions (General 1H)
-1H weapons will now be more plentiful and more varied.. do not be surprised to find slower and higher damage 1H weapons.
-1H weapons will now have an appropriate damage bonus that scales with delay.
-1H weapons will sometimes be PRIMARY only. These weapons are too unwieldy to be swung in the off-hand. Weapons with higher delays and damage are more likely to be PRIMARY only. Most weapons that are wieldable in the off-hand are wieldable in PRIMARY hand as well.

Solutions (Dual Wield)
-Weapons wielded in the offhand will now have a scaling Damage Bonus that is the standard damage bonus halved (round down) for the offhand. A weapon that has a 13 damage bonus in the primary hand will have a 6 damage bonus in the offhand.

Solutions (Shields)
-Shields give an extra roll to both Parry and Riposte when wielded should you fail your first rolls. Shields allow your FULL parry and riposte rolls to be used against arrows. (riposte cannot hit, but does remove damage)

Solutions (Archery/Thrown)
-Quivers have had a change made to them.. they are now chargeable items (no longer containers) that are recharged in much the same way that the Minimizing Devices are, except in Fletching kits. Quivers can be loaded with up to 180 Arrows. (Must be the same type however) Quivers now fit in the AMMO slot.
-Wrist Pouches are now available for the throwing crowd, and serve the same purpose as quivers, except for thrown ammo. Appropriate new recipes are availble to make pouches that are comparable to tailored quivers.
-Archery now works differently. The delay on the bow now refers to how long the bow takes to take a shot with it. Arrows are fired after the aim-time, NOT immediately.
You may begin a shot right after having let the last arrow go. Archery will now be similar to casting a fast spell and has a chance at being interrupted if you are hit during shooting.
-Archery Line-of-sight is now fixed. If you can see part of the creature, you can hit it, in addition, the overall ban on archery at close range has been lifted.
-The following issues make archery less likely to hit: You are moving (large hit, and might be interrupted), the target is moving (small hit), the target is within 50 range (medium hit).
-Archery Damage bonus is now similar to 2H weapons and applies to all arrows fired.
-Thrown weapons do not have a minimum range and have no penalty when up close for any class... they DO have penalties for target moving and thrower moving, however.

Solutions (Aggro)
-Spells and weapon effects that ONLY cause Hate will also cause a 0 second stun
-Enraging Blow and similar spells cause slightly less numerical hate (to balance its new effect)
-Archery/Thrown deals hate as a melee weapon would... but that hate is modified by range... there is a cap to how much hate can be not looked at by the mob due to range.



Warriors:
-ALL warrior weaponskills now cap at 250, this includes Piercing, Thrown, and Archery. Warriors are the undisputed master of weapons and their skill with weapons should reflect this.
-Warriors gain a new mitigation table at level 55, level 60 and then again at 65. These tables reduce average damage by up to 15% at level 65 with NO AAXP.
-New "Greater Disciplines" have been added for Warriors. These are gained at level 62 (/stance defense) and 64 (/stance offense) Greater Discplines are PERMANENT until a new stance is chosen. Defense makes you harder to hit and take less damage, but hit less often and deal less damage. Offense does the opposite.
-/stance balanced is the default mode and is available at level 62 as well (you would use this to enable the old disciplines)
-The new permanent disciplines can only be changed once a minute. once in a permanent discipline mode, you must stay there for 1 minute, after which you can choose a new permanent discipline.
-Greater disciplines' timers are separate from old disciplines, but only one discipline can be active at any one time.
-Warriors gain /disc Battlemaster at level 65. For 20 seconds the warrior is affected by both FURIOUS and MIGHTYSTRIKE
-Warrior KICK now has a moderate hate modifier that applies to every KICK whether it hits or not. (if someone tried to kick you in the jimmy, you probably wouldn't appreciate them much either)


Knights: (PAL/SHD)
-ALL weaponskills and Offense now cap at 235. (includes archery)
-Knights will gain Thrown skill (caps at 235)
-Knights gain new mitigation tables similar to warriors at levels 60 and 65. Knights are always one table behind warriors, and will mitigate 10% at level 65.
-Shadowknight Leechcurse (60th discipline) has had its timer reduced.
-Knights gain enhanced versions of their old disciplines as they advance
-Shadowknight gain /disc Defile at level 63... this is an enhanced version of Unholy Aura that affects ALL offensive spells cast by the Shadowknight including Harmtouch by 50%. (doesn't stack with /disc unholyaura)
-Shadowknights gain /disc Bloodbath at level 65... this is an enhanced version of Leechcurse that lasts for 20 seconds and adds auto-riposte to leechcurse's life draining.
-Paladins gain enhanced versions of their disciplines at level 63 and 65.

Rogues/Monks/Rangers/Beastlords:
-At least ONE of Archery/Thrown are raised to at least 240 so that the class has an offense from range if they have the ammo.
-Rangers penalties to archer moving or target moving are HALVED from the standard. (everyone else has a very small chance to hit if both archer and target are moving, rangers have a decent chance to hit in this situation.
-Rangers ignore the general archery to-hit penalty to target too close.
-Rangers chance to be interrupted if hit while shooting is one-quarter of the standard.
-Rangers double-damage while non-rooted, non-moving, has been removed.
-Ranger now deal double damage at point-blank range.
-Rangers' Endless quiver has been changed to reflect archery's new power. Endless quiver will no longer shoot infinite rare arrows. Endless quiver will now summon (in .1 seconds) a LORE NO DROP quiver of the new style that has 200 arrows of a set magical arrow. This quiver will have haste as good as the best tailorable quiver. Rangers may use this ability once per 10 seconds.
-Rogues and monks gain two greater disciplines at 62 AND 64 and a combo discipline at 65.
-Rangers and Beastlords gain enhanced hybrid disciplines at 63 and 65.
-Monk/Beastlord Block skill is now applied to all arrows fired at them


Marauder Grabbit the Assassin
Halfling Deceiver
Township Rebellion
Stormhammer

"Have you ever had a hero?"

[Quineloe]

-ALL warrior weaponskills now cap at 250, this includes Piercing, Thrown, and Archery. Warriors are the undisputed master of weapons and their skill with weapons should reflect this.

Please, spare us with lame reasons for these changes. Warriors have been waiting for this since the Sebilite croaking dirk dropped in Kunark.

Quivers now fit in the AMMO slot.

Took you long enough.

-Warriors gain /disc Battlemaster at level 65. For 20 seconds the warrior is affected by both FURIOUS and MIGHTYSTRIKE

I see high end crippling blows on moss snakes coming.
This looks really nice

-Rangers' Endless quiver has been changed to reflect archery's new power. Endless quiver will no longer shoot infinite rare arrows. Endless quiver will now summon (in .1 seconds) a LORE NO DROP quiver of the new style that has 200 arrows of a set magical arrow. This quiver will have haste as good as the best tailorable quiver. Rangers may use this ability once per 10 seconds.

This is a nerf to Endless Quiver, right ?

[Furor Planedefiler]

What is this? Did you get bored or is someone smoking some serious fucking crack.

[Grabbit Allworth]

I didn't check the validity of the above post. It's someones idea and not an actual proposal by the dev.

The post was passed on to me by a guildmate, and he obtained it from the steel warrior forums.


I apologize =/.



G

[demasus]

Redundant someone already asked.

[Rhuma]

These arent official changes, nothing on eqlive or any site note worthy...

1/2 of these changes would cause serious problems...

[Frodlin7th]

If you've got a mana bar, you're not "melee" nor are you hurting anywhere near where the true melee (Warrior/Monk/Rogue) are, thus even hinting at upgrades makes you like riot looters, simply trying to take advantage of a bad situation.

This appears to me to be nothing more than a boon to Knights, who don't need a boost anyhow, as they're part of the imbalance as it exists.

Solutions (General 2H)
-All PoP 2H-only AAXP abilities will now affect any weapon in the primary hand, be it 1H/Shield, Dual Wield, or 2H.
-2H weapons with delay lower than 28 will now have an appropriate 2H damage bonus which is ALWAYS better than the 1H counterparts.
-ALL 2H weapons have had their damage bonus scaled to be better than a 1H weapon of the same damage delay if it should happen to exist.

Translation: Throw a bone to those who use 1h weapons, which are meaningless because the resultant effect on a 17 damage weapon is nowhere near it's effect on a 2h, 48dmg weapon. Then, upgrade 2h weapons with low delay to the point where using a 1h weapon makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, particularly 1h with shield, also making the low delay early PoP weapons vastly superior to those with 30+ delay because of the drawback of the damage bonus disappearing.

Solutions (General 1H)
-1H weapons will now be more plentiful and more varied.. do not be surprised to find slower and higher damage 1H weapons.
-1H weapons will now have an appropriate damage bonus that scales with delay.
-1H weapons will sometimes be PRIMARY only. These weapons are too unwieldy to be swung in the off-hand. Weapons with higher delays and damage are more likely to be PRIMARY only. Most weapons that are wieldable in the off-hand are wieldable in PRIMARY hand as well.

LOL, these aren't "solutions" except perhaps more access to 1h weapons. The rest is basically saying "Grats on your new slower 1h weapons, some which you won't even be able to offhand, to compensate, we've added additional damage bonuses which are meaningless because in the above 2h paragraph, we already made it clear that they would never be as viable as 2h weapons"

Solutions (Dual Wield)
-Weapons wielded in the offhand will now have a scaling Damage Bonus that is the standard damage bonus halved (round down) for the offhand. A weapon that has a 13 damage bonus in the primary hand will have a 6 damage bonus in the offhand.

A BONE!

Solutions (Shields)
-Shields give an extra roll to both Parry and Riposte when wielded should you fail your first rolls. Shields allow your FULL parry and riposte rolls to be used against arrows. (riposte cannot hit, but does remove damage)

Note: /yawn, yet another Knight boon, still not enough incentive for warriors to use a shield.

Note: A Charm: "This charm will double your base damage in main hand and imbue an additional hate proc when a shield is equipped" would do a lot more than another boon to knights.

Solutions (Archery/Thrown)
-Quivers have had a change made to them.. they are now chargeable items (no longer containers) that are recharged in much the same way that the Minimizing Devices are, except in Fletching kits. Quivers can be loaded with up to 180 Arrows. (Must be the same type however) Quivers now fit in the AMMO slot.
-Wrist Pouches are now available for the throwing crowd, and serve the same purpose as quivers, except for thrown ammo. Appropriate new recipes are availble to make pouches that are comparable to tailored quivers.
-Archery now works differently. The delay on the bow now refers to how long the bow takes to take a shot with it. Arrows are fired after the aim-time, NOT immediately.
You may begin a shot right after having let the last arrow go. Archery will now be similar to casting a fast spell and has a chance at being interrupted if you are hit during shooting.
-Archery Line-of-sight is now fixed. If you can see part of the creature, you can hit it, in addition, the overall ban on archery at close range has been lifted.
-The following issues make archery less likely to hit: You are moving (large hit, and might be interrupted), the target is moving (small hit), the target is within 50 range (medium hit).
-Archery Damage bonus is now similar to 2H weapons and applies to all arrows fired.
-Thrown weapons do not have a minimum range and have no penalty when up close for any class... they DO have penalties for target moving and thrower moving, however.

Turning archery/range attacks into casting is now an "upgrade"?

Solutions (Aggro)
-Spells and weapon effects that ONLY cause Hate will also cause a 0 second stun
-Enraging Blow and similar spells cause slightly less numerical hate (to balance its new effect)
-Archery/Thrown deals hate as a melee weapon would... but that hate is modified by range... there is a cap to how much hate can be not looked at by the mob due to range.

How the fuck does this help? Summonned rangers, and breaking EB?

Warriors:
-ALL warrior weaponskills now cap at 250, this includes Piercing, Thrown, and Archery. Warriors are the undisputed master of weapons and their skill with weapons should reflect this.
-Warriors gain a new mitigation table at level 55, level 60 and then again at 65. These tables reduce average damage by up to 15% at level 65 with NO AAXP.
-New "Greater Disciplines" have been added for Warriors. These are gained at level 62 (/stance defense) and 64 (/stance offense) Greater Discplines are PERMANENT until a new stance is chosen. Defense makes you harder to hit and take less damage, but hit less often and deal less damage. Offense does the opposite.
-/stance balanced is the default mode and is available at level 62 as well (you would use this to enable the old disciplines)
-The new permanent disciplines can only be changed once a minute. once in a permanent discipline mode, you must stay there for 1 minute, after which you can choose a new permanent discipline.
-Greater disciplines' timers are separate from old disciplines, but only one discipline can be active at any one time.
-Warriors gain /disc Battlemaster at level 65. For 20 seconds the warrior is affected by both FURIOUS and MIGHTYSTRIKE
-Warrior KICK now has a moderate hate modifier that applies to every KICK whether it hits or not. (if someone tried to kick you in the jimmy, you probably wouldn't appreciate them much either)

1. Hahah, let's pretend to be upgrading warriors when we're really just putting piercing where it should be in the first place, but we can use this in a cynical attempt to move Knight skills up in a meaningful way.

2. Again, separating this from the "proposed knight change" is laughable. The spread that's off is the spread BETWEEN warriors and knights, not between warriors, knights and then the rest of melee.

3. Stances = good

4. How can you not use a disc if you're using one of three "stances"? Are you saying that your "Balanced stance" is the one in which old disciplines must be used in?

5. Tell me about refresh on /disc battlemaster

6. Not such a bad idea, not sure how helpful it'd be.

Knights: (PAL/SHD)
-ALL weaponskills and Offense now cap at 235. (includes archery)
-Knights will gain Thrown skill (caps at 235)
-Knights gain new mitigation tables similar to warriors at levels 60 and 65. Knights are always one table behind warriors, and will mitigate 10% at level 65.
-Shadowknight Leechcurse (60th discipline) has had its timer reduced.
-Knights gain enhanced versions of their old disciplines as they advance
-Shadowknight gain /disc Defile at level 63... this is an enhanced version of Unholy Aura that affects ALL offensive spells cast by the Shadowknight including Harmtouch by 50%. (doesn't stack with /disc unholyaura)
-Shadowknights gain /disc Bloodbath at level 65... this is an enhanced version of Leechcurse that lasts for 20 seconds and adds auto-riposte to leechcurse's life draining.
-Paladins gain enhanced versions of their disciplines at level 63 and 65.

ROFL preposterous! Knights are already too close to warriors as is, the spread needs to INCREASE not decrease. An auto-riposte disc on a knight is game-breaking unbalanced... game breaking! You already have harmshield and FD as 'get out of jail free cards' and adding a disc which simply gives you additional interrupt-free casting and melee while using leechcurse is preposterous.

IDDQD didn't work on your SK eh?

Rogues/Monks/Rangers/Beastlords:
-At least ONE of Archery/Thrown are raised to at least 240 so that the class has an offense from range if they have the ammo.
-Rangers penalties to archer moving or target moving are HALVED from the standard. (everyone else has a very small chance to hit if both archer and target are moving, rangers have a decent chance to hit in this situation.
-Rangers ignore the general archery to-hit penalty to target too close.
-Rangers chance to be interrupted if hit while shooting is one-quarter of the standard.
-Rangers double-damage while non-rooted, non-moving, has been removed.
-Ranger now deal double damage at point-blank range.
-Rangers' Endless quiver has been changed to reflect archery's new power. Endless quiver will no longer shoot infinite rare arrows. Endless quiver will now summon (in .1 seconds) a LORE NO DROP quiver of the new style that has 200 arrows of a set magical arrow. This quiver will have haste as good as the best tailorable quiver. Rangers may use this ability once per 10 seconds.
-Rogues and monks gain two greater disciplines at 62 AND 64 and a combo discipline at 65.
-Rangers and Beastlords gain enhanced hybrid disciplines at 63 and 65.
-Monk/Beastlord Block skill is now applied to all arrows fired at them

Wow, huge ranger nerf!

You know, you have such a grasp of class balance that you're clearly qualified to work at SOE, the people who put us in the position we're in now.

[Behemoth]

Here is the original thread this was ganked from

http://steelwarrior.xwarzone.com/sho...=&threadid=757

Anyone who thought this list was real for even a split second is a Retard.

[Vikki]

Alot of those changes would be decent, though alot of them were really silly. :|

[Xaem]

So..

Remind me exactly how again all these changes to archery and endless quiver would in fact produce a "marginal damage increase" for Rangers?

That's right. It wouldn't. Whoever wanted to go nerf-happy on Rangers and endless quiver is getting the right idea when they are speaking about LoS and whatnot, but if you really want to make endless quiver summon a quiver you need to check yourself.

[PigBenis]

IT'S TO LATE