WoW; what worries you still.

Northerner · 05-17-2003, 03:36 AM

Alright, I've read the press and I've seen the trailers. I've played Warcraft 1-3x and the Diablos and moreso the Starcrafts. I am also a veteran EQ player ('99 -> today, on The Nameless when it got propped, with gaps and the latests looks like it will stick) and I've hit DAoC, AC2 and recently AO (trial's free!~ and it still sucks less). Anyhoo, I once was thinking EQ2, nice chance to start from scratch again... then WoW started hitting the radar harder.

There is no doubt I will buy the game. If Tig had come out saying it was a piece of shit, I'd still likely buy it. I buy Blizzard games because even the worst of them give me the $50 worth of fun (eg Diablo2). I never have walked away mad yet but a MMORPG is a different critter.

Can Blizzard handle the initial storm? A big question really. I think post-beta, the first release day will make Kaladim in '99 look like a serene lake with lily pads. I hope Blizz plans on the pessimistic side (as networkers).

Races will be a problem also; I am seeing ~60% hits on NEs and less than 5% interest in Taurans. Sure, I have a a Tauran Hunter planned but still the dark/light split might be a big deal. Balance is very key and so impossible to achieve. Give up now but let us know where things are leading please!

My biggest worry, and it is still around, is that there will be no need for the communities that we built in EQ. In DAoC, AO and many others there was a soloing-is-ok feel and all big encounters degenerated into a big glom-on-MOB thing that made zerging Grummus look like a l33t strat. Allowing soloing is a nice thing on paper but it hurt EQ in time and it needs to be curbed in WoW. Hold a vision and stay the course! I am glad they are initially using "Griffon rides" and not ports for example. Those inane books were the worst even addition to EQ, IMHO. Most importantly, decide *what* you want to do as devs, and then do it. If we bitch and moan, stay by your plan but also listen. We give good input but we are not your masters; we are your not-so-humble guests.

Lorrac · 05-17-2003, 04:34 AM

My biggest worry is the amount of cheating on battlenet (at least when I still played D2). Unless Blizzard changes their policy concerning cheaters, wow won't last long... imo one of the reasons eq has lasted so much has been their low tolerance towards cheating.

emkcus · 05-17-2003, 04:59 AM

The reason they dont crack down on the cheaters on battle.net is because its a free service. Blizzard does it as a favor to its player base to connect other people to other people. Being a free service it doesn;t pay for itself if they were to implement cheating protections/GM monitering. Its just not cost feasible.

That being said WOW will have (i assume) dedicated servers to handle all the server side stuff that needs to be handled to prevent cheating. Also the fact that they stream data to the player means that programs like showEQ(or showWOW) will not work except in like a 10 foot radius. Players will pay a monthly fee for the game and in all likelyhood there will be almost zero cheating in WOW.

Quineloe · 05-17-2003, 05:02 AM

My biggest worry is that I have to wait too long for it !

Lauraliane · 05-17-2003, 05:09 AM

My biggest worry : Where are the high elves ?
I don't wanna have to be a fucking Human or even worse dwarf to be mage.

Kaylum · 05-17-2003, 05:51 AM

my biggest worry is not being able to play enough...

Quineloe · 05-17-2003, 05:56 AM

elves will be in, they are far from having announced all races yet.

Froakr Croakr · 05-17-2003, 06:12 AM

My biggest worry is the combat system. Everything else looks good to me. If it's something near Balders Gate, DAoC or NWN, i won't play it. I don't really care for sending a guy in and hitting the attack button and let it go. EQ has it's faults, and the system is always in need of work, but I think they've did a good job on how the game feels when I'm in combat.

Lhon · 05-17-2003, 06:23 AM

I agree 100% Northerner. I've played many of the other MMORPGs and the focus on soloing hurts them all. Encouraging grouping by giving xp bonuses etc. doesn't work because then people just group up and solo. Grouping needs to be made important via content designed for groups.

Clericnon2boxed · 05-17-2003, 06:43 AM

My biggest worry is that all unique content will be used up within 2 months.

Cybsled · 05-17-2003, 07:23 AM

EQ's unique content for the original game wasnt used up in 2 months...why would WoW's?

As for cheating on bnet, those games are also mostly client side. It's not like you will be able to use a fucking trainer program in WoW.

Maegwin · 05-17-2003, 07:31 AM

To those who are worried about cheating like there is on b.net...fear not: Blizzard has said time and again that the World of Warcraft will have it's own seperate dedicated servers to host the game....entirely seperate from battle.net. It is the only logical way to do it....the network approach to make a MMORPG ( read: persistant online rpg ) is to do it client/server for ALL clients.

Therefore, a peer matching service such as battle.net is not even possible.

Kinerry · 05-17-2003, 08:13 AM

Maegwin, you obviously do not know battle.net very well

There has always been an open/closed bnet choice, do your research for chrissakes!

nadime · 05-17-2003, 08:58 AM

There is rampant cheating on the closed servers too, though, all because of bugs that allow item dupes or item creation. My 3 level 80+ chars all had completely duped gear -- +8 windforce with socketed crap, ethereal ridiculous swords with socketed zod, 200 SoJs, etc. etc. This is gear that to get normally you'd have to play seriously 4-6 mos. endlessly farming end-game bosses.

The basic problem is that the server trusts hidden portions of the client to help keep track of items (though there have been server side bugs that cause duplication as well). Thorough gamers with some technical expertise have been able to sniff out the information being passed back and forth to the servers and figure out how to force item duplication (or at least that's how it worked during my 2-3 month stint as an avid Diablo 2 player).

Eventually most of the dupes get deleted because all unique items generated in the game have a unique item ID and the server will delete one instance of a dupe if it ever finds two in the same game. Considering how many people play and how rare it is for a dupe and its original to be in the same game, however, dupes last awhile.

Cloud9_ · 05-17-2003, 09:02 AM

The problem with games like diablo2 and starcraft is the team working on patches and things to help prevent cheating is consisted of only a handful of people (read, 1 or 2 at most) Someone above had it right when they said it wasn't cost efficient, especially because BNet is a free service.

MMORPGs by their nature and game / network design are harder to "cheat" in, and the WoW live team dedicated to tracking down these cheats / hacks / exploits will do a good job, im sure.

05-17-2003, 03:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
Northerner Shiny Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Calgary Posts: 986 -12 Internets	WoW; what worries you still. Alright, I've read the press and I've seen the trailers. I've played Warcraft 1-3x and the Diablos and moreso the Starcrafts. I am also a veteran EQ player ('99 -> today, on The Nameless when it got propped, with gaps and the latests looks like it will stick) and I've hit DAoC, AC2 and recently AO (trial's free!~ and it still sucks less). Anyhoo, I once was thinking EQ2, nice chance to start from scratch again... then WoW started hitting the radar harder. There is no doubt I will buy the game. If Tig had come out saying it was a piece of shit, I'd still likely buy it. I buy Blizzard games because even the worst of them give me the $50 worth of fun (eg Diablo2). I never have walked away mad yet but a MMORPG is a different critter. Can Blizzard handle the initial storm? A big question really. I think post-beta, the first release day will make Kaladim in '99 look like a serene lake with lily pads. I hope Blizz plans on the pessimistic side (as networkers). Races will be a problem also; I am seeing ~60% hits on NEs and less than 5% interest in Taurans. Sure, I have a a Tauran Hunter planned but still the dark/light split might be a big deal. Balance is very key and so impossible to achieve. Give up now but let us know where things are leading please! My biggest worry, and it is still around, is that there will be no need for the communities that we built in EQ. In DAoC, AO and many others there was a soloing-is-ok feel and all big encounters degenerated into a big glom-on-MOB thing that made zerging Grummus look like a l33t strat. Allowing soloing is a nice thing on paper but it hurt EQ in time and it needs to be curbed in WoW. Hold a vision and stay the course! I am glad they are initially using "Griffon rides" and not ports for example. Those inane books were the worst even addition to EQ, IMHO. Most importantly, decide what you want to do as devs, and then do it. If we bitch and moan, stay by your plan but also listen. We give good input but we are not your masters; we are your not-so-humble guests. __________________ ...

05-17-2003, 07:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,215 +14 Internets	EQ's unique content for the original game wasnt used up in 2 months...why would WoW's? As for cheating on bnet, those games are also mostly client side. It's not like you will be able to use a fucking trainer program in WoW. __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

05-17-2003, 07:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
Maegwin Squirrel Slayer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York Posts: 80 +0 Internets	To those who are worried about cheating like there is on b.net...fear not: Blizzard has said time and again that the World of Warcraft will have it's own seperate dedicated servers to host the game....entirely seperate from battle.net. It is the only logical way to do it....the network approach to make a MMORPG ( read: persistant online rpg ) is to do it client/server for ALL clients. Therefore, a peer matching service such as battle.net is not even possible. __________________ Zug zug? Maegwin, Forest Stalker of Hoss Celeste - 40 Dragoon / 20 Warrior - Quetzalcoatl

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05-17-2003, 04:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Lorrac Invaders Spaced Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: the land of 16% VAT Posts: 1,380 -3 Internets	My biggest worry is the amount of cheating on battlenet (at least when I still played D2). Unless Blizzard changes their policy concerning cheaters, wow won't last long... imo one of the reasons eq has lasted so much has been their low tolerance towards cheating.

05-17-2003, 04:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
emkcus Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 2 +0 Internets	The reason they dont crack down on the cheaters on battle.net is because its a free service. Blizzard does it as a favor to its player base to connect other people to other people. Being a free service it doesn;t pay for itself if they were to implement cheating protections/GM monitering. Its just not cost feasible. That being said WOW will have (i assume) dedicated servers to handle all the server side stuff that needs to be handled to prevent cheating. Also the fact that they stream data to the player means that programs like showEQ(or showWOW) will not work except in like a 10 foot radius. Players will pay a monthly fee for the game and in all likelyhood there will be almost zero cheating in WOW.

05-17-2003, 05:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
Quineloe Hard Rock Hallelujah Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,995 -25 Internets	My biggest worry is that I have to wait too long for it !

05-17-2003, 05:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lauraliane Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: France Posts: 29 -1 Internets	My biggest worry : Where are the high elves ? I don't wanna have to be a fucking Human or even worse dwarf to be mage.

05-17-2003, 05:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kaylum <>X<> Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: FL Posts: 193 -1 Internets	my biggest worry is not being able to play enough...

05-17-2003, 05:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
Quineloe Hard Rock Hallelujah Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,995 -25 Internets	elves will be in, they are far from having announced all races yet.

05-17-2003, 06:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
Froakr Croakr Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1 +0 Internets	My biggest worry is the combat system. Everything else looks good to me. If it's something near Balders Gate, DAoC or NWN, i won't play it. I don't really care for sending a guy in and hitting the attack button and let it go. EQ has it's faults, and the system is always in need of work, but I think they've did a good job on how the game feels when I'm in combat.

05-17-2003, 06:23 AM	#9 (permalink)
Lhon Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 403 -1 Internets	I agree 100% Northerner. I've played many of the other MMORPGs and the focus on soloing hurts them all. Encouraging grouping by giving xp bonuses etc. doesn't work because then people just group up and solo. Grouping needs to be made important via content designed for groups.

05-17-2003, 06:43 AM	#10 (permalink)
Clericnon2boxed Up Syndrome Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bärlin Posts: 1,406 -2 Internets	My biggest worry is that all unique content will be used up within 2 months.

05-17-2003, 08:13 AM	#13 (permalink)
Kinerry Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 170 +0 Internets	Maegwin, you obviously do not know battle.net very well There has always been an open/closed bnet choice, do your research for chrissakes!

05-17-2003, 08:58 AM	#14 (permalink)
nadime Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 327 -1 Internets	There is rampant cheating on the closed servers too, though, all because of bugs that allow item dupes or item creation. My 3 level 80+ chars all had completely duped gear -- +8 windforce with socketed crap, ethereal ridiculous swords with socketed zod, 200 SoJs, etc. etc. This is gear that to get normally you'd have to play seriously 4-6 mos. endlessly farming end-game bosses. The basic problem is that the server trusts hidden portions of the client to help keep track of items (though there have been server side bugs that cause duplication as well). Thorough gamers with some technical expertise have been able to sniff out the information being passed back and forth to the servers and figure out how to force item duplication (or at least that's how it worked during my 2-3 month stint as an avid Diablo 2 player). Eventually most of the dupes get deleted because all unique items generated in the game have a unique item ID and the server will delete one instance of a dupe if it ever finds two in the same game. Considering how many people play and how rare it is for a dupe and its original to be in the same game, however, dupes last awhile.

05-17-2003, 09:02 AM	#15 (permalink)
Cloud9_ Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Los Angeles California Posts: 228 +9 Internets	The problem with games like diablo2 and starcraft is the team working on patches and things to help prevent cheating is consisted of only a handful of people (read, 1 or 2 at most) Someone above had it right when they said it wasn't cost efficient, especially because BNet is a free service. MMORPGs by their nature and game / network design are harder to "cheat" in, and the WoW live team dedicated to tracking down these cheats / hacks / exploits will do a good job, im sure.