What happend to the 'over'-sized exp-dungeons?

[Candiarie]

Solb rocks, lots of camps, good xp, decent loot, and a somewhat high end part, spent like my entire 35-48 levels there.
Kael-my 2nd favorite dungeon, shitload to do, lots of loot
Velks is good too, good loot, camps kinda spread out(dogs in entirely separate part of zone), but I think there are too few camps in general, gets crowded easily.

[Ukerric]

Originally posted by Ajran
what the hell is so hard about getting to Droga and Kaesora.. Kaesora is in FoB the damned book is prolly 200 yards from the zone in.

It's not getting to that is the problem with Droga, Nurga, Kaesora, etc... it's getting in, or, rather, getting out once you're in.

At the time, VI (not SOE yet) was still fixated on the original "dungeon crawl" idea: the fact that dungeons were made to crawl thru with a group, moving along. So they designed most of the Kunark dungeons that way: place the exit far from entrance.

And they achieved their goals. You go into these dungeons only with your special group, for one purpose typically, go, fight, and leave. You don't have XP camp. You don't come in LFG (since if you go in, you can't get out.

And the dungeons are empty.

That's the "travel" I referred to. Not travel to, but travel thru.

[Ukerric]

Originally posted by Jokah
so even the old world content for a certain level range is empty because not even its simplicity can offset the better rewards of the new pastures, which is a damn shame.

Aye. But it's available. And it would become interesting again if they just upped the ZEM (or lowered the luclin ZEMs).

But it's still interesting content. Provided you haven't done it already in two or three different incarnations, that is.

But if you sacrifice your interesting content in favor of high-end content, then you "admit" that there's no one anymore to use the old content.

Currently, EQ lives because it adds content. Whether it's LoY or PoP, it's all new content (and they've indicated they're considering extending the blue range at 61+, because the locking of people in a single expansion was the worst move they could do... in retrospect). That there's no new low-level content indicates that the low-level content is currently enough to satisfy the low levels.

If you start cannibalizing the low-level content to create high-level content, then you are effectively saying that there's not enough people to consume that content.

I don't play EQ currently, but I would take it as an ominous sign the fact that the LOIO-FM-OT-DL-KC model of old, or the more recent Pal-Echo-MS-DSP-ME one starting to look like the only possible way of doing things. Not the most attractive, but the one that is actively encouraged... by removing the choices of alternatives.

I still consider the Cazic-Thule revamp as one of the worst moves ever made.

[Affinity]

Please dont revamp droga or dalnir or most of those low level dungeons, most of them suck BALLS. They are so small and ugly, god they suck. Make new dungeons with new content and up to date shit. Safe zone ins, maybe continue with the grave yard idea.

I for one LOVE Bastion of thunder.... this is probably the best example of what any future dungeon should be. You have these lower level wings that can have multiple camps(2, 3 or maybe 4 when crowded). You have semi rare named that pop from clearing for exp and tougher but 1 groupable named that are on a set timer, that in fact, drop decent loot; some people use it some people sell, parchments and/or runes,or nothing at all. Its very exceptable risk vs. reward. Then you have the higher level towers which are great exp and a tough named at the end(1 groupable with 2 charmers or 30 people doable otherwise) which drop very nice loot for the risk. The grave yard, non see invis mobs, raid level encounters and nice loot. This zone rocks. Also Cazic thule, an exception to the old world zones which turned out to be a great revamp. Chardok was/is great. Hope to see more dungeons like these.

[Iannis]

they add in new ports since I scampered off? I swear it was a fucking hike to get to those damn dungeons. phear teh dreadlands port =P

[KrintixXaneris]

I'd like to start out by saying that this is probably the coolest, most productive thread I've seen on this board in a long time.

On topic, though, I think that the most fun I ever had in the game (aside from level 1-20 on my first char, DE war who farmed GLS's before kunark to buy small bronze) was with my shaman and two of my good friends in Chardok. Each of us would 2 box and fight our way down to the bank with our chars: 60 pal, 58-60 cle, 54-56 shaman, 54 druid, 54 enc, and a 60 sk. Best times ever. No one EVER EVER EVER camped the bank. AND there are T H R E E named spawns with 3 item loot tables each in the bank itself. Great exp, great loot, fun fun fun fights (when the two mobs who spawned where we were camping would pop when we already had 3 pulled and maybe/maybe not mezzed). Best of all was over the weeks we spent down there on and off, we oonly wiped out a couple of times, but the action was often enough to keep you awake and having fun. Only thing that pissed all of us off about that place was that we saw all but ONE item from the named spawns there, which was the caster only haste belt (omg) which we really wanted for our gnome cle.

[Sindaael]

The most fun I've ever had was in Plane of Mischief, if you consider that as a dungeon.

[Yaguex]

I TOTALLY agree with the thread starter. EQ has lost the concept of dungeon crawling, and no fantasy roleplaying game is so without dungeon crawling.

I really wonder why Verant has gotten rid of dungeons (excuse me, I dont call BoT a dungeon). They were the most successful zones of each expansion: Guk, SolB, Mistmoore, BlackBurrow, etc in the original game. Sebilis and Karnor were 100s of people's home during Kunark. Same with Velketor and Sirens in Velious.

But then it came Luclin an its half ass Lake of Ill Omen-on-steroids outdoors like Maidens Eye and Umbral, or PoP with the infamous PoV and such. Hell, even fucking Plane of Fire is SkyFire all over again!

I miss old dungeons. CT revamp drove in tons of peeps with its great loot, exp and fun. Not long ago I went at 7 pm evening to Sebilis to farm some juggies for my alt's chardok quest. Guess what? I was alone with another fellow 2-box PL'ing his twink. I felt sad man: One of the VERY best zones this game has ever seen and it was totally wasted on prime time. Great content has being wasted since Luclin expansion came out: Mistmoor, BlackBurrow, Nurga, Charasis, etc. The game has evolved, and so has its player base. Now a days mid level players are mostly twinks that cruise thru content up to 60 in a heartbeat, and anyway they choose the Luclin express to level up (Paludal, echo, DSP, etc).

I say: Hey Verant, adapt zones to the new times. I'm all for revamping old glories. I had A LOT of fun in the new CT, and I for sure would preffer a new Guk than *yawn* PoV *yawn*




Yag.

[Shinrai]

Hm, I think I might be closer to my newbie period (possibly still in it) than some here. I adore the concept of dungeons, but there's a couple of other factors to consider.

1. Casters. The NPC caster change meant mobs cast more potent spells and land them a lot easier. This is even if you have decent resists, which is still hard to get for a young character. With this single change most of the goblin dungeons went out the window. Splitpaw, Droga / Nurga, Dalnir, Permafrost have a high concentration of casters that can obliterate a party if things go sour.

2. Control. Fighting in a dungeon is already plenty dangerous, and there are things that make the risk outrageous. A lot of the lower level dungeons have mobs that flee early and assist readily (and lots of those are SoW'd!) making snare neccessary. Lots of casters means mez is huge. Gate is just nasty. And you need a good cleric and a good tank to survive accidents. In other words unless you have a well balanced group the risk goes sky high.

3. Access. The best dungeons can be entered safely so you can see if there's a group there. They can be left safely when there isn't. And they ideally have a relatively open plan or contain multiple independant area's. This determines the ability to get in to a camp, do a CR if needed, and leave at the end. KC, Vhelks and L.Guk are good examples of this, which is why they are still used. Howling stones is a horrific example.

4. Reward. The loot doesn't have to be uber, but it shouldn't be as embarassingly bad as some of it is. The players have worked out that AC matters and stats don't. A dungeon should have gear that people would consider wearing at the level they get it.

These problems used to be minimized, I think, because dungeons used to be the best XP from a smaller pool of hunting spots. Thus people would crowd in dungeons. This solves a lot of the control and access problems as a side effect.