Charm and balance - Page 8

Frax · 03-26-2003, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedo
A wizard quad kiting does a lot more DPS than a rogue or a monk, and replaces the need for a tank. This is nothing new folks.

Soloing has never been balanced.

Bump that to like 80% and sony might implement it :P

Frax · 03-26-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sentient
The problems with CoD come from the inbalance of PoP mob HP compared to PoP mob DPS.

The fix? Add a reduce effectiveness thing, think XtC proc but for melee damage. "Reduce melee damage to 25%"

Leave everything else the fuck alone.

hit the wrong quote button on the post above, this is the correct post that i wanted to quote!

Liz · 03-26-2003, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eyston
CoD replaces tanks with superior tanks and more than 2-3 times the equivalent DPS.

I'll give you the dps part but pets are not superior tanks! Last night someone made the comment of "pet > rhu" so he decided to let the jopal tank the magma guard... GUESS WHAT? I went along with the little demonstration, the jopal didn't even get it to 60% before it almost enraged. I however went oom trying to heal the damn thing, never went oom healing the tank!

Oh but they do even more dps when hitting from the back than they do from the front. So once again, you get more from the pet when someone is tanking.

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eyston
Quad kiting doesn't replace a tank in so much as it doesn't require one. CoD replaces tanks with superior tanks and more than 2-3 times the equivalent DPS.

So, what's the difference? CoD replaces the need for a "real" tank, just because there's a mob in front of the other one, doesn't make it unbalanced. Wizards are probably doing more DPS than the charmed pet.[/quote]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eyston
When you have a discrepency between some people who make an AA in 30 minutes, and some who make an AA in 2 hours, it makes the people who are doing it in 2 hours feel like they are wasting their time. It devalues normal groups. Nobody wants to suffer through slow AA when they know their is an opportuntiy to more than double or tripple or quadruple their current rate.

Charming should remain an option, it just shouldn't remain an option 2-3 times better than any other option.

-Eyston

Some classes have *always* been able to solo faster than others. Wizards get AA way faster than warriors grouping in most zones, so why not nerf them too?

Eyston · 03-26-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedo
So, what's the difference? CoD replaces the need for a "real" tank, just because there's a mob in front of the other one, doesn't make it unbalanced. Wizards are probably doing more DPS than the charmed pet.

CoD replaces a tank, exactly the problem.

Charmed Pets do 400-800 DPS. So no, they aren't.

Quote:

Some classes have *always* been able to solo faster than others. Wizards get AA way faster than warriors grouping in most zones, so why not nerf them too?

It's all a matter of scale. A wizard quadding an AA in 90 minutes versus a warrior grouping an AA in 120 minutes. Difference, advantage wizard, but not huge. Enchanter CoD'ing an AA in 30 minutes blows both out of the water. I don't care if an enchanter can solo better than a warrior, but 3 times the speed of a full group is pretty ridiculous (ie. unbalanced).

Honestly VI should attack it two ways: scale soloing down, scale grouping up. Grouping should *always* be the best experience. Getting 5 other people to go to a place together and stay together for a few hours is a lot more work than logging on and soloing. There should be more incentive and reward. The grouping bonus should be made something worthwhile. As it is currently, the group bonus is completely intangible. Soloing should remain an option, just not the best one possible.

-Eyston

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 04:14 PM

I dunno how much damage wizard AEs do, but remember they're hitting *four* mobs at a time, if the wizard is doing 150 DPS to each MOB, I don't think that's unreasonable (correct me if I'm wrong), that's 600 DPS overall.

Charmed pets probably do right around 600, depending where you are.

Wizards can quad an AA *way* faster than every 90 minutes. A group in PoFire castle can get an AA in about 90 minutes.

If VI made soloing slower than grouping, it'd completely change the game and alienate a lot of its base. Soloing has always been faster than your average group (no, I'm not talking the AE groups at the end of Luclin..I'm talking the 2 warriors, rogue, cleric, enchanter, monk groups).

Candiarie · 03-26-2003, 05:44 PM

That would rock to make grouping at least somewhat on par with soloing, itd probably be implemented badly and end up screwing the entire player base over by making grouping worse and soloing worse as well. A system like SBs would screw up most of the dynamics of the game unless the devs got some actual balls and got inventive.

Samus Aran · 03-26-2003, 06:11 PM

Dumbfucks who report test changes are, well, dumbfucks.

The cunt poster made it seem as if those changes were permanent when the fact is, it is NOT like that on test right now. It was for a day or two, but it was obviously bugged.

Jesus Christ you fucking faggots, there's a reason it's called... TEST.

Frodlin7th · 03-26-2003, 06:26 PM

Quote:

If VI made soloing slower than grouping, it'd completely change the game and alienate a lot of its base.

I don't think a more idiotic comment has ever been made about EQ, even by Tortoise.

Suineg · 03-26-2003, 06:34 PM

Quote:

made it seem as if those changes were permanent when the fact is, it is NOT like that on test right now. It was for a day or two, but it was obviously bugged

Amen so help me God.

This is why you ignore Lucy except when it goes live. It is cool to see what they are thinking but stop getting your panties in a bunch just cause some proposed change is in TEST phase.

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frodlin7th
I don't think a more idiotic comment has ever been made about EQ, even by Tortoise.

laff

How many soloers out there would rather group?

Suineg · 03-26-2003, 07:31 PM

How many would quit the game if you got more xp grouping then solo?

That is what was retarded.

You fix something and it should not alienate the base players.

And by him saying that he was saying the majority of people solo when in fact I sincerely doubt that highly.

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 07:39 PM

This thread is about nerfing soloing (enchanters, necros, mages), not increasing group XP. I'm all for increasing group XP.

If I got shitty XP soloing, I would quit, though. Groups are fun sometimes, but having to do it is a hassle.

And.. "a lot" does not = "most". A lot of people DO solo. Most people do NOT solo.

Eyston · 03-27-2003, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedo
If I got shitty XP soloing, I would quit, though. Groups are fun sometimes, but having to do it is a hassle.

Haha?

So lets say the roles were switched, and charming was 90 minute AA's and grouping was 30 minutes AA's. You'd quit. Yet you are calling people who think grouping is too slow jealous and whiners.

Grouping should be better XP than soloing because, like you said, it is a hassle. But in order to make grouping better XP, you either make a group do an AA faster than a CoD chanter (15 min AA pls!!), or you have to make CoD chanter do less along with making a group do more.

Let people continue to solo. Don't force people into grouping, make grouping have rewards (better xp).

-Eyston

phaedo · 03-27-2003, 05:42 AM

shrug, they can go ahead and making group fast XP, make it faster than soloing for all I care. It doesn't hurt anyone for everyone to get XP faster. But if you nerf soloing to the point that it's really slow, yeah, the game would be a lot less fun for me.

Dunno where I called anyone jealous or a whiner tho.

03-26-2003, 05:44 PM	#112 (permalink)
Candiarie Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 671 -1 Internets	That would rock to make grouping at least somewhat on par with soloing, itd probably be implemented badly and end up screwing the entire player base over by making grouping worse and soloing worse as well. A system like SBs would screw up most of the dynamics of the game unless the devs got some actual balls and got inventive. __________________

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03-26-2003, 04:14 PM	#111 (permalink)
phaedo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 99 -1 Internets	I dunno how much damage wizard AEs do, but remember they're hitting four mobs at a time, if the wizard is doing 150 DPS to each MOB, I don't think that's unreasonable (correct me if I'm wrong), that's 600 DPS overall. Charmed pets probably do right around 600, depending where you are. Wizards can quad an AA way faster than every 90 minutes. A group in PoFire castle can get an AA in about 90 minutes. If VI made soloing slower than grouping, it'd completely change the game and alienate a lot of its base. Soloing has always been faster than your average group (no, I'm not talking the AE groups at the end of Luclin..I'm talking the 2 warriors, rogue, cleric, enchanter, monk groups).

03-26-2003, 06:11 PM	#113 (permalink)
Samus Aran Sons of the Storm Heal Bitch Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 771 +2 Internets	Dumbfucks who report test changes are, well, dumbfucks. The cunt poster made it seem as if those changes were permanent when the fact is, it is NOT like that on test right now. It was for a day or two, but it was obviously bugged. Jesus Christ you fucking faggots, there's a reason it's called... TEST.

03-26-2003, 07:31 PM	#117 (permalink)
Suineg Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,867 -21 Internets	How many would quit the game if you got more xp grouping then solo? That is what was retarded. You fix something and it should not alienate the base players. And by him saying that he was saying the majority of people solo when in fact I sincerely doubt that highly.

03-26-2003, 07:39 PM	#118 (permalink)
phaedo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 99 -1 Internets	This thread is about nerfing soloing (enchanters, necros, mages), not increasing group XP. I'm all for increasing group XP. If I got shitty XP soloing, I would quit, though. Groups are fun sometimes, but having to do it is a hassle. And.. "a lot" does not = "most". A lot of people DO solo. Most people do NOT solo.

03-27-2003, 05:42 AM	#120 (permalink)
phaedo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 99 -1 Internets	shrug, they can go ahead and making group fast XP, make it faster than soloing for all I care. It doesn't hurt anyone for everyone to get XP faster. But if you nerf soloing to the point that it's really slow, yeah, the game would be a lot less fun for me. Dunno where I called anyone jealous or a whiner tho.