Charm and balance - Page 7

Morphyous · 03-25-2003, 09:04 PM

The next fucking time you group or raid with an enchanter, and
1. the mobs can't be mezzed
2. your tanks die and you need dps
3. the encounter is difficult and you need to handle the adds

BE THANKSFUL THAT THEY NERFED CHARM.

Dumbasses.

Eyston · 03-25-2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Morphyous
The next fucking time you group or raid with an enchanter, and
1. the mobs can't be mezzed
2. your tanks die and you need dps
3. the encounter is difficult and you need to handle the adds

BE THANKSFUL THAT THEY NERFED CHARM.

Dumbasses.

I hate those difficult encounters when your tanks die.

-Eyston

Morphyous · 03-25-2003, 09:20 PM

Difficult encounters in normal group exp. Read the Group or Raid part of my post.

Adding rune is gay because it makes it a duration charm. After a while you can figure out when your charm will break based on the rune. Enchanters won't fucking use charms like dictate and that's all the rune is. What's 3000 aaexp points gonna do to you? Make the enchanter live longer? Omg they can max their resists, int, and tradeskills. Shit! Don't let them buff me! I want them to be weak!

What hurts us is hurting you.

I think Destinae said it best, "too much exp, what will we do?"

Fris_Leafshadow · 03-25-2003, 10:00 PM

it's not that we don't want enchanters to have 300 aa's, we want 300 aa's as well.

smokah · 03-25-2003, 10:52 PM

i had a pretty big reply goin, but realized how biased it came off given the fact that i play an enchanter heh.

having said that, the resist change is all thats necessary. reasons why have already been said.

all of this rune / set hp break charm stuff will just transform CoD into a shittier form of dictate. im not gonna lie, i dont want to lose my ability to solo, but then im also one of those people that will group with friends and other people rather than holding an entire area hostage, so why should -I- have to?

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 12:21 AM

Don't put mobs that can be charmed near boss mobs. You don't see people using pets for Fennin Ro, Agnarr, etc. Are enchanters overpowered in fights like RZ? You bet they are.

But...

If necros are crying 'cuz enchanters are soloing twice as fast as them, shouldn't warriors be crying they can't solo *at all*?

I know I already said this, but it just boggles me that people are trying to argue that soloing should be balanced, when it never has been before.

Not to mention, have you ever seen a wizard solo in PoFire? Maybe they should nerf that too.

Drinn · 03-26-2003, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedo
You don't see people using pets for Fennin Ro, Agnarr, etc.

I saw a charmed mob tank Agnarr for about 10 mins actually

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fris_Leafshadow
it's not that we don't want enchanters to have 300 aa's, we want 300 aa's as well.

OK, how does nerfing charm do that?

ilian · 03-26-2003, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drinn
I saw a charmed mob tank Agnarr for about 10 mins actually

There is nothing charmable during the Agnarr fight that I know of.
Everything that came out of the portals was yellow to me at 65.

You must be thinking of the two minis before Agnarr, in which a lot of blue-con mobs pour out of the portals. and you cannot bring those pets up to agnarr that I know of.

If you can get a charmie to Agnarr please let me know how, maybe Ill do it next time.

Furor Planedefiler · 03-26-2003, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ilian
There is nothing charmable during the Agnarr fight that I know of.
Everything that came out of the portals was yellow to me at 65.

You must be thinking of the two minis before Agnarr, in which a lot of blue-con mobs pour out of the portals. and you cannot bring those pets up to agnarr that I know of.

If you can get a charmie to Agnarr please let me know how, maybe Ill do it next time.

Look harder

Gevarien~SolRo · 03-26-2003, 04:19 AM

Yeah, let's nerf everyone down so that they can only xp in a raid no smaller than two of each class, so noone feels left out and everyone can be a champion. Some classes have always been better at soloing than others for periods of time. Melee and especially hybrids could solo themselves senseless with a Fungi all through SoL . Heck I've seen rogues solo xp in FG for good xp.

Are enchanters overpowered at RZ? No, as far as I can tell the fight was designed with charm in mind, seeing as it would have been easy for them to just up the level of the mobs by one or flag them uncharmable.

I think Myrdin got it right.

Aeka · 03-26-2003, 10:27 AM

Which goes back to what Frodlin was saying. Why does one spell make and replace all of the tanks and deals more damage than Monks and Rogues? Is it worth keeping one class happy at the expense of so many others?

I may not be able to define "unbalanced" but I know it when I see it. This doesn't seem very balanced.

phaedo · 03-26-2003, 12:20 PM

A wizard quad kiting does a lot more DPS than a rogue or a monk, and replaces the need for a tank. This is nothing new folks.

Soloing has never been balanced.

Sentient · 03-26-2003, 12:28 PM

The problems with CoD come from the inbalance of PoP mob HP compared to PoP mob DPS.

The fix? Add a reduce effectiveness thing, think XtC proc but for melee damage. "Reduce melee damage to 25%"

Leave everything else the fuck alone.

Eyston · 03-26-2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phaedo
A wizard quad kiting does a lot more DPS than a rogue or a monk, and replaces the need for a tank. This is nothing new folks.

Soloing has never been balanced.

Quad kiting doesn't replace a tank in so much as it doesn't require one. CoD replaces tanks with superior tanks and more than 2-3 times the equivalent DPS.

You can't Quad kite your way through encounters.

It may be just plain jealousy, but at least it is reasonable jealousy. When you have a discrepency between some people who make an AA in 30 minutes, and some who make an AA in 2 hours, it makes the people who are doing it in 2 hours feel like they are wasting their time. It devalues normal groups. Nobody wants to suffer through slow AA when they know their is an opportuntiy to more than double or tripple or quadruple their current rate.

It's like how people used to crowd 1-2 zones and leave other zones completely empty. By having a few routes much more bountiful than other routes, you completely devalue/demotivate doing it any other way.

Charming should remain an option, it just shouldn't remain an option 2-3 times better than any other option.

-Eyston

03-25-2003, 09:20 PM	#93 (permalink)
Morphyous Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 402	Difficult encounters in normal group exp. Read the Group or Raid part of my post. Adding rune is gay because it makes it a duration charm. After a while you can figure out when your charm will break based on the rune. Enchanters won't fucking use charms like dictate and that's all the rune is. What's 3000 aaexp points gonna do to you? Make the enchanter live longer? Omg they can max their resists, int, and tradeskills. Shit! Don't let them buff me! I want them to be weak! What hurts us is hurting you. I think Destinae said it best, "too much exp, what will we do?" Last edited by Morphyous : 03-25-2003 at 09:28 PM.

03-26-2003, 12:21 AM	#96 (permalink)
phaedo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 99 -1 Internets	Easiest way to fix charm: Don't put mobs that can be charmed near boss mobs. You don't see people using pets for Fennin Ro, Agnarr, etc. Are enchanters overpowered in fights like RZ? You bet they are. But... If necros are crying 'cuz enchanters are soloing twice as fast as them, shouldn't warriors be crying they can't solo at all? I know I already said this, but it just boggles me that people are trying to argue that soloing should be balanced, when it never has been before. Not to mention, have you ever seen a wizard solo in PoFire? Maybe they should nerf that too.

03-26-2003, 10:27 AM	#102 (permalink)
Aeka Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 88 -1 Internets	Re: Re: Re: Re: Easiest way to fix charm: Which goes back to what Frodlin was saying. Why does one spell make and replace all of the tanks and deals more damage than Monks and Rogues? Is it worth keeping one class happy at the expense of so many others? I may not be able to define "unbalanced" but I know it when I see it. This doesn't seem very balanced.

03-26-2003, 12:28 PM	#104 (permalink)
Sentient Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 25 -1 Internets	XtC The problems with CoD come from the inbalance of PoP mob HP compared to PoP mob DPS. The fix? Add a reduce effectiveness thing, think XtC proc but for melee damage. "Reduce melee damage to 25%" Leave everything else the fuck alone.

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03-25-2003, 09:04 PM	#91 (permalink)
Morphyous Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 402	The next fucking time you group or raid with an enchanter, and 1. the mobs can't be mezzed 2. your tanks die and you need dps 3. the encounter is difficult and you need to handle the adds BE THANKSFUL THAT THEY NERFED CHARM. Dumbasses.

03-25-2003, 10:00 PM	#94 (permalink)
Fris_Leafshadow Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 565 +0 Internets	it's not that we don't want enchanters to have 300 aa's, we want 300 aa's as well.

03-25-2003, 10:52 PM	#95 (permalink)
smokah pve is srs bznzz Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 208 -2 Internets	i had a pretty big reply goin, but realized how biased it came off given the fact that i play an enchanter heh. having said that, the resist change is all thats necessary. reasons why have already been said. all of this rune / set hp break charm stuff will just transform CoD into a shittier form of dictate. im not gonna lie, i dont want to lose my ability to solo, but then im also one of those people that will group with friends and other people rather than holding an entire area hostage, so why should -I- have to?

03-26-2003, 04:19 AM	#101 (permalink)
Gevarien~SolRo Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 15 -1 Internets	Yeah, let's nerf everyone down so that they can only xp in a raid no smaller than two of each class, so noone feels left out and everyone can be a champion. Some classes have always been better at soloing than others for periods of time. Melee and especially hybrids could solo themselves senseless with a Fungi all through SoL . Heck I've seen rogues solo xp in FG for good xp. Are enchanters overpowered at RZ? No, as far as I can tell the fight was designed with charm in mind, seeing as it would have been easy for them to just up the level of the mobs by one or flag them uncharmable. I think Myrdin got it right.

03-26-2003, 12:20 PM	#103 (permalink)
phaedo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 99 -1 Internets	A wizard quad kiting does a lot more DPS than a rogue or a monk, and replaces the need for a tank. This is nothing new folks. Soloing has never been balanced.