Proposal for new Charm(s)

[Jaytee Bushwacker]

A proposal for 3 new player made charms, descriptions, effects and recipes.

Basic - increases in power when you wear at least three pieces of matching armor. Max effect when you wear a complete set of matching armor (Chest, Arms, Helm, Legs, Feet, 2 Bracers).

The basic should work for ANY set of armor, from old world through PoP.

Ornate - functions the same as basic but only with ornate armor sets

Elemental - functions the same as basic but only with elemental armor sets

The effect of these charms is to take the stats from the worn armor pieces into account and then sum them up. Once added together you receive the following percentages added to your stat totals:

Basic - 2%
Ornate - 8%
Elemental - 15%

Example:

You wear Magician Elemental Armor pieces Arms, Helm, Boots with the following stats.
Boots
AC: 17
DEX: +17 STA: +11 INT: +20 AGI: +17
HP: +135 MANA: +140 SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +15
SV COLD: +15
Helm
AC: 16
STR: +18 DEX: +12 STA: +10 INT: +20
AGI: +10 HP: +135 MANA: +140 SV COLD: +25
SV MAGIC: +25
Arms
AC: 20
DEX: +18 STA: +11 INT: +20 AGI: +21
HP: +135 MANA: +140 SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +20
SV COLD: +10 SV POISON: +20

These 3 pieces give you the following sums

AC 53
STR 18 DEX 47 STA 32 INT 60 AGI 48 HP 405 MANA 420
SV COLD 50 SV FIRE 25 SV MAGIC 25 SV DISEASE 35 SV POSION 20

Your charm bonus would be:
Basic Charm
AC 1.06
STR 0.36 DEX .94 STA .64 INT 1.2 AGI .96 HP 8.1 MANA 8.4
SV COLD 1 SV FIRE .5 SV MAGIC .5 SV DISEASE .07 SV POSION .4

Elemental Charm
AC 7.95
STR 2.7 DEX 7.05 STA 4.8 INT 9 AGI 7.2 HP 60.75 MANA 63
SV COLD 7.5 SV FIRE 3.75 SV MAGIC 3.75 SV DISEASE 5.25 SV POSION 3

These percentages could be tweaked a little, the basic looks kind of low imo but this is just a proposal. You guys really should look into doing something like this.

As to the recipes:

Basic Charm:

One (1) NO DROP item from tier 1 planes of power (Plane of Night Mares, etc)

Three (3) enchanted bar of platinum

One (1) Hexed Kerran Doll OR One (1) Mithril Frog Totem OR One (1) Totem of the Warrior Spirit OR One (1) pretty much any "totem" item in game

One (1) Vial of Purified mana

One (1) pottery component (player made and tradeable)

One (1) tailoring component (player made and tradeable)

One (1) complete set of armor (melee or caster from any period in eq...old world, kunark etc)

Ornate and Elemental Charm(s):

One (1) NO DROP item from the appropriate tier planes of power (i.e. elemental from water, fire, earth or air)

Three (3) enchanted bar of platinum

One (1) Hexed Kerran Doll OR One (1) Mithril Frog Totem OR One (1) Totem of the Warrior Spirit OR One (1) pretty much any "totem" item in game

One (1) Vial of Purified mana

One (1) pottery component (player made and tradeable)

One (1) tailoring component (player made and tradeable)

One (1) complete set of armor (melee or caster from any period in eq...old world, kunark etc)

This will get accomplish several things - it gives you a charm worth getting, it involves tradeskillers, tradeing of the player made droppable components and gets rid of old armor sets that are wasting away anyway.

[FuckYou]

Interesting idea. I don't really follow this part:

One (1) complete set of armor (melee or caster from any period in eq...old world, kunark etc)

i.e. Cobalt-class armor? A full set of this stuff would be a *component* in a combine? One full set for each combine?

[Frodlin7th]

Looks that way to me, but he was pretty specific that it could be one complete set of *any* type of armor, so only the truly moronic would use Cobalt rather than Banded.

I have a queston that's semi-related to this topic.

When the "charm slot" went live, did everyone get the UI mod or only those who had ordered LoY? In other words, do people without LoY get a charm slot? If so, that may help explain why charms are basic suckage and also why we may never see charms outside of LoY, since if you didn't have to buy the expansion to put it on, it would remove some of the motivation for purchasing the expansion.

[Abatoir]

Sony went and got entirely too damn cute with the items for this slot.

Just make items on par with every other slot in the game and sprinkle them across the zones as level appropriate.

All these effects are way more of a pita than they're worth as currently implemented and trying to polish a turd isnt a good way to fix it.

Abs

[Jaytee Bushwacker]

Yes, I did mean one complete set of matching armor. If they wanted to it is entirely reasonable to me to see that the ornate and elemental requiring old planar armor sets. (example for mage you would need a complete set of apothic)

[ThatGuyThatIAm]

Originally posted by Jaytee Bushwacker
Yes, I did mean one complete set of matching armor. If they wanted to it is entirely reasonable to me to see that the ornate and elemental requiring old planar armor sets. (example for mage you would need a complete set of apothic)

That seems a bit harsh. I know how much everyone just LOVES farming tradeskill items for hours on end, especially when respawn is 8 hours. How many trips does it take to get a full set of planar armor? I remember people missing one piece of their full set for months.

Substitute the set of full planar armor for something less time consuming to get, and you've got yourself a very superb idea.

[Tuco]

yeah it's a good idea but I deleted my indicolite armor a while ago... so minus the old school armor.

[Makata]

I realize for you, your guild, and the other 3-7% of the eq populus that's in elemental planes that your orante and your elemental armor is really special and important, but most of the population isn't going to get there, and having such an absurd growth of power like that is a bit high.

A fairer scaling would be:

Basic: 7%
Ornate: 10%
Elemental: 14%

The real problem in your idea though is the practicality. It would take alot more manpower than you think to differentiate sets. You have:

- Cloth
- Patchwork
- Banded
- Bronze
- Black Alloy
- lvl 30 quest armor
- planar
- kunark
- pog
- thurg
- ss
- kael
- pom
- cultural (several levels i believe)
- ornate
- elemental

Then you got 5 times as many for specific race / classes, such as the set of gnome armor w/ the haste arms, the IKS only armor set that's slightly better than chain, etc etc etc.

FURTHERMORE, there shouldn't be a requirement on tier one zones. LoY was released for every level. Level 1's have charm slots. There should be charms available for level 5's, for level 10s, for 20s, for 30s. And don't say twink, or don't deserve it, or xyz.. because it scales.

Even your run of the mill level 6, in mostly cloth, maybe some patchwork, is still only gonna get like (if they round up) 1ac 1hp 1mana 1str 1sta from their charm slot at best.

But lastly, the realistic limitation: what breaks the tie? Simply example:

You are wearing 3 kunark armor pieces, simply ac 20, 25, and 30. You are wearing 3 velious armor pieces, simply 40hp, 45hp, 50hp. For the sake of arguement, assume they have no other stats. Also assume the rest of your armor is a mishmash of sets, none being 3 or more.

Is the charm 7% of 75ac? Or is it 7% of 135hp? Some would like the 9hp, some would like the 4ac. How is the game going to decide? A yes/no box?

[CruelTea]

A conglomeration of stats. It would be 7% (or whatever) of 75AC *and* 7% of 135HP. I don't really see a problem with that, as the power of the charm is still dependant on the power of the armor sets you wear. I think it would simply be best to make an "Armor Set Charm" for each "major" set of armor: Old World Quest, Kunark, Velious Quest (one per cloth/leather/chain/plate, works for all factions) and PoP. I think it would get way too complicated if you tried to include any more armor sets.

Of course, this is assuming you don't just get a golden shower of charms when you zone into Time. A WINNER IS YOU: +5 Mana Warrior Go Go!

[Jovec]

Pretty interesting idea. Just trying to expand it a bit further. For nodrop charms, have the combine for the charm be no-fail and done any forge, with chances for failures coming earlier when the tradeskill items were being made. Although tailoring and smithing make the most sense, require each charm's recipe use a playermade tradeskill item from each of the major tradeskill lines (every tradeskill except alchemy and fletching) with the difficulty of the item appropriate for the charm (basic requires a tradeskill item made with at least 100 skill, ornate with 200, elemental with maxed). Remove from the recipe the armor requirements, instead producing a basic nodrop charm with minimal stats/ % bonus. (an alternative would be to have the basic charm tradeable, but after the first turn-in (see below) it becomes no drop.)

Now, divide armor sets into classes. It is probably worthwhile to limit how much armor belongs in each class to specificly force the player to get certain pieces and force a certain progression. The most obvious examples are the original planar armors, the kunark armors, and the velious quested armors. Add some other appropriate armor sets to each class, including player made ones. The charm levels and armor classes don't have to be limited to 3 gradients, have 4 or 5 levels if that is appropriate. Take your newly made charm and turn it in with an appropriate piece of armor to some quest NPC, and receive a new charm with improved stats (or higher %). These quest NPCs could either be sitting in Bazaar and accept all armor / charm turn-ins (i.e easily accessable), or could be scattered around in dangerous locations and only accept specific pieces of armor done in order (i.e. 2x bracers first, then boots-gloves, then arms-helm, legs, bp). Scattering the NPCs and using progression would allow for things like the leg turn-in NPC for the highest charm to be in PoTime or something, with the BP turn-in NPC spawing after you "beat" PoT. NPCs for lower level charms would be scattered through various dungeons forcing some dungeon crawling. Finally, you wouldn't need specific sets of armor to turn in, just armor from the same class. If you have a mix of SS and Thrug armor to turn in, it will work.

CruelTea: I think it would simply be best to make an "Armor Set Charm" for each "major" set of armor: Old World Quest, Kunark, Velious Quest (one per cloth/leather/chain/plate, works for all factions) and PoP. I think it would get way too complicated if you tried to include any more armor sets.

I think this is what most people expected, that some charms would be like this....i.e Kunark charm works with full cobalt or BE. However, there is no reason they couldn't be in the game along with playermade ones. The difference being that the playmade ones force the use of tradeskills and more player interdependance, and have the opportunity to take some money and items out of the economy (lost cause that may be at this point). Playermade charms also allow you to trade difficulty for time....that is...the Kunark charm wouldn't drop off Emp in Seb, but a quest/tradeskill piece could....so instead of having only raid mobs dropping charms that certain players and guild cannot kill, a suitable quest for tradeskill components would potentially allow those players to get a nice charm item. Of course, the most powerfull charms could require both major raid mobs to be killed and tradeskill components dropping off difficult single group mobs.

Makata: You are wearing 3 kunark armor pieces, simply ac 20, 25, and 30. You are wearing 3 velious armor pieces, simply 40hp, 45hp, 50hp. For the sake of arguement, assume they have no other stats. Also assume the rest of your armor is a mishmash of sets, none being 3 or more.

Is the charm 7% of 75ac? Or is it 7% of 135hp? Some would like the 9hp, some would like the 4ac. How is the game going to decide? A yes/no box?

I think I see what you are getting at, but your question isn't worded right. The basic idea is to have the charm give you a percentage of stats based on the sum of the stats of every piece of armor you have, regardless of how mismatched they are. Some charms could be focused at specific amor sets, like cobalt or raex, which is how most people thought charms would work. Having some charms work with different classes of armor could get complex, simply because every armor in the game would need to be sorted into its class. In your example, it can work three ways. 1) have the charm not care what kind of armor you have on, just add the stats for everything and give you a percentage. 2) Have the charm be tied to a specific armor set, like the cobalt charm or foreststalker charm. It gives you a percentage based only on the sum of those certain pieces you are wearing. 3) Have an armor class charm that gives you a percentage based on armor you are wearing belong to the right class...i.e Kael, SS, and Thurg armor is all in the same class. This is the hardest because every piece of armor in the game needs to be classified. The best solution is probably for charms like 1 above be playermade, while charms like 2 be dropped.

-Jovec

[Lin]

Haven't we maxed our int/wis/whatever and sta and whatever yet anyway? Do we really need yet another slot that does the same thing?

Why not something like:
casting time 10.0 Acumen
only useable when it's snowing or raining

casting time 5.0 Root
only useable if you don't have a pet
Class: Magician, Shadowknight

casting time 10.0 Spirit of the Wolf
only useable if you don't have any buffs

casting time 5.0 Invisibility
only useable if you don't have any spells memorized
Class: Cleric, Paladin

Anyway, it was just tacked on as a marketing gimmick. Not sure if you need LoY or not to have it but if you do then the more pathetic and weak charms are the better as it won't force people to buy such a crappy expansion.

[Makata]

Originally posted by Lin
casting time 5.0 Invisibility
only useable if you don't have any spells memorized
Class: Cleric, Paladin

DEAR GOD ALMIGHTY PUT THIS IN THE GAME.

Well, how about 2 spells or less? Dun make me wait 15 min on DA/DB refresh preeze ;( Otherwise sure I'll click out 6 gems NP.

BTW.. if its supposed to be 7% of 75 ac AND 7% of 135 hp.. whats the point of making it work off armor sets? At that point it's working off all armor, regardless what you have. By that logic, it just adds a flat 7% to EVERYTHING you wear. Kind of a dim dull idea if you ask me.

But Lin had it right on. Effective but somewhat limited effects but make them fill in the cracks of the game. But to reiterate what he said, and tack on a few of my own:

MAG / SHD charm: Root only works if you don't have a pet [or fd memmed]

PAL/CLR charm: Invis only if no/1/2 spells memmed.

WAR charm: +30ac +70hp only if 2h equipped

CLR/DRU/SHM charm: +10ac +5wis +20mana +20hp only if 2h equipped

ENC/WIZ/MAG/NEC charm: +10ac +5int +20mana +20hp only if 2h equipped

PAL/SHD charm: 40% over-cap, stacks with everything haste only if 1h equipped

BST charm: (Some huge melee modification, etc haste, procs, dmg table increase, +atk) only if no pet

I'm sure a dozen others could be added. The simple idea: take a class; move the class away from it's "ideal" (ie no pet mag, 1h pallies, etc) and reward them to compensate. Don't make it so either is better than the other, just let it be there, and let the player base decide.

I'd for instance love it if I (cleric) had a charm that was a 6.5 cast (same as our nukes) that nuked for 5x our listed weapon damage (1h only). Gives clerics an insentive to get weapons previously only assigned to melee. Or perhaps a paladin charm that (similar to above), worked only with a shield equipped, and gave me a self heal proc = 3x the ac of the shield.

Beautiful idea, go apply for a job at VI.

[CruelTea]

Originally posted by Makata
BTW.. if its supposed to be 7% of 75 ac AND 7% of 135 hp.. whats the point of making it work off armor sets? At that point it's working off all armor, regardless what you have. By that logic, it just adds a flat 7% to EVERYTHING you wear. Kind of a dim dull idea if you ask me.
...

To limit their effectiveness and increase their "involvement" in the gear choices a character makes. Basing it on armor sets would obviously exclude pretty much every ring, earring, necklace, belt, shoulders and back item in the game. +7% HP from a set of Raex's is a nice, sizable upgrade (50ish HP, maybe?) whereas +7% HP from all items is just a mini-ND and I would say twice as powerful or more than 7% based on armor sets alone.

...
WAR charm: +30ac +70hp only if 2h equipped
...

The movement of everyone to two-handers make this charm a lot like: You get +50 HP...but "only" if you wear armor! It makes no sense. The only class that still relies on Dual Wield is the rogue, for backstab. This charm would pretty much just help kill Dual Wield even more.

CLR/DRU/SHM charm: +10ac +5wis +20mana +20hp only if 2h equipped

ENC/WIZ/MAG/NEC charm: +10ac +5int +20mana +20hp only if 2h equipped

You're not thinking at all on these, are you? Lets see, I can get +155 mana with a two-hander plus charm...or I can get +290 mana with something in Primary and something in Secondary...plus I can get a DIFFERENT charm that is actually useful and gives me even MORE mana.

PAL/SHD charm: 40% over-cap, stacks with everything haste only if 1h equipped

40% over-cap haste is insane. Paladins and SKs already get all the good one-handers (if SoE would give "real" damage classes 24/21 weapons, Dual Wield wouldn't be in this mess) and they do just fine with them when they choose to use them. 2HS outdamages them by so much because one-handers are so fucking gimp.

BST charm: (Some huge melee modification, etc haste, procs, dmg table increase, +atk) only if no pet

Yes, and when beastlords make use of this charm, we can call them "Rangers" and they will still do less damage than the other low-mitigation classes because they haven't spent massive AA so they can be shackled to a buggy combat mode that none of them knew they would be forced into when they started playing 4 years ago.

I'm sure a dozen others could be added. The simple idea: take a class; move the class away from it's "ideal" (ie no pet mag, 1h pallies, etc) and reward them to compensate. Don't make it so either is better than the other, just let it be there, and let the player base decide.

I agree with this; the mage/SK root charm looks good. But your other suggestions need serious work.

[Makata]

Originally posted by CruelTea
To limit their effectiveness and increase their "involvement" in the gear choices a character makes. Basing it on armor sets would obviously exclude pretty much every ring, earring, necklace, belt, shoulders and back item in the game. +7% HP from a set of Raex's is a nice, sizable upgrade (50ish HP, maybe?) whereas +7% HP from all items is just a mini-ND and I would say twice as powerful or more than 7% based on armor sets alone.

The problem though is obviously everyone is going to aim for the best set of gear. And if you take a flat 7% of that, there's no incentive to aim for anything but the peak. That was the whole point of these charms. To introduce variants on the class, even if in this case they are small.

The movement of everyone to two-handers make this charm a lot like: You get +50 HP...but "only" if you wear armor! It makes no sense. The only class that still relies on Dual Wield is the rogue, for backstab. This charm would pretty much just help kill Dual Wield even more.

Fine. Then make a 2h and a dw version then. But last time I checked, if you wanted aggro, you used DW..

You're not thinking at all on these, are you? Lets see, I can get +155 mana with a two-hander plus charm...or I can get +290 mana with something in Primary and something in Secondary...plus I can get a DIFFERENT charm that is actually useful and gives me even MORE mana.

No actually I wasn't. I was just throwing a quick and dirty idea out there. The stats can be fucked around with, but the idea is there. But btw.. I will never in my life see a 155 mana 2h or a 145 mana 1h EVER. It seemed like not too shitty a charm to me.

Besides you missed the entire god damn point. So what if it isn't 100% as strong as another variant. Part of it is to not make the classes so stagnant. I'd personally load up on a damaging 2h and actually have fun in the group, knowing at least part of the disadvantage of a 2h (less mana) is covered by my charm. Obviously, I can get alot better than a 10ac 5wis 20hp/mana shield; but making the charm 50ac 30wis 150hp/mana is also just a tad bit overpowered, considering what small percentage of the game has access to elementals.

40% over-cap haste is insane.
...
2HS outdamages them by so much because one-handers are so fucking gimp.

THUS THE ENTIRE REASON FOR THE CHARM. So a 1h / shield pally could come at least reasonably close to 2h damage. Obviously:
a) He shouldn't come AS close, just closER.
b) The numbers (namely, 40%) could be tweaked to represent what it would actually take to accomplish a.

Yes, and when beastlords make use of this charm, we can call them "Rangers" and they will still do less damage than the other low-mitigation classes because they haven't spent massive AA so they can be shackled to a buggy combat mode that none of them knew they would be forced into when they started playing 4 years ago.

Take your whines and bitches elsewhere. It was a fucking idea you tool. With the sole exception of the fact they would be meleeing, and have mana, BST and RNG have virtually nothing in common, even in this scenario.

If you think you're so fucking smart go ahead and make your own. By the way you critique mine, 10k says that:
a) They will be grossly overpowered, or
b) Obviously elitist to you and your perceived high level of play.

[Drakonn]

I'd be happy enough if they let that crap-ass talisman quest be used in the charm slot.

Heck, if they don't I have no intention of even starting the thing.

I like the original idea here though, and I really hope they at least make some kind of charm with remotely good stats...