Shadowbane Gone Gold

Your Hero · 03-07-2003, 05:59 AM

After half a century it has finally happened.

linkage

Personally I haven't played the game but I don't think it will do well. It is based on PVP and we all know how popular PVP is.

People don't wanna fight intelligent beings whose actions are predetermined. Fights where you have to do something other than pound hotkeys. It just wont work.

P.S. Not trying to offend anyone.

Cybsled · 03-07-2003, 07:56 AM

Next thing you know 3d Realms will do something wacky and say Duke Nukem Forever has gone gold as well.

findar · 03-07-2003, 08:01 AM

shit, whats next? team fortress 2?

EllessarBard · 03-07-2003, 08:43 AM

Personally I haven't played the game but I don't think it will do well. It is based on PVP and we all know how popular PVP is.

People don't wanna fight intelligent beings whose actions are predetermined. Fights where you have to do something other than pound hotkeys. It just wont work.

Even said sarcastically, thats a pretty stupid thing to say.

PvP games are all over... and extremely popular. Most games are PvP. Its seriously rare to find a good multi-player PvE game; which is largely why EQ is so successful.

The problem is of course the GAME; the type of things that make a good PvP GAME don't mix well with the things that make a good PvE GAME. By analogy.. I like skeet shooting, baseball, and mountain climbing. Each in itself is fun... but trying to combine all 3 into a single master sport... well, it would suck.

I like PvP generally; but I hate PvP in EQ. I don't think it would be preferable to see in EQ either, and its something I hope they just abandon for EQ2.

PvP is good. PvE is good. Its this half and half try to do everything crap that sucks.

Liz · 03-07-2003, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EllessarBard
I like skeet shooting, baseball, and mountain climbing. Each in itself is fun... but trying to combine all 3 into a single master sport... well, it would suck.

Well you could shoot at baseballs, or better yet baseball players, while climbing up a mountain

(sorry couldn't resist elle)

Merauk · 03-07-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EllessarBard
[i]PvP games are all over... and extremely popular. Most games are PvP.

PVP oriented MMORPG's are hugely popular with the people who are good at PK'ing (which is the minority). They are hugely unpopular with the victims of said PK'ing (which is the majority). There diffently is a market place for them but I don't think it will ever be as broad of a market as PVE is for persistent games.

The other issue is that persistent games make money through subscription fee. One prick standing outside of town ganking newbies and then dancing on their graves makes those people quit. So the game company is forced to alter PVP so radically that the hard core people who love PVP quit and complain how PVP is always watered down. If they don't then the mass of sheep who have been being slaughtered quit because the game simply isn't fun for them. UO is a good example of this. They had an excellent PVP system upon release IMHO, but in order to keep the subscriber base they gradually had to tweak it till essentially it became a non-PVP game. DAOC has pulled way back on their PVP for the same reasons (and brought up blue servers).

Will be interesting nonetheless to see how Shadowbane does.

Mecha Washu · 03-07-2003, 12:24 PM

I hope Shadowbane actualy does ok, not saying that to make it sound like OMG SB is the next EQ killer!!11 but because EQ has no other real competition so for the most part they can just slack off and since they pretty much own the market they wont lose anyone but if there was an actual MMORPG that competed with them then they might kick it up a notch and we would see some improvements to get excited over again.

Talking to my friend who watches wrestling he said something like how there used to be 2 differnt shows owned by differnt companys, the WWF and the WCW. He said that once WCW was bought out then WWF had no competition and started to go down hill shortly after because they didnt have a need to compete. That might sound kind of queer or whatever but it does make sense.

water bottle · 03-07-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Talking to my friend who watches wrestling he said something like how there used to be 2 differnt shows owned by differnt companys, the WWF and the WCW. He said that once WCW was bought out then WWF had no competition and started to go down hill shortly after because they didnt have a need to compete. That might sound kind of queer or whatever but it does make sense.

Yes, that is exactly what happened, and it caused me to stop watching. I now only watch CZW matches.

ICELL · 03-07-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Well you could shoot at baseballs, or better yet baseball players, while climbing up a mountain

rofl...knew something like this was coming...

findar · 03-07-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
Well you could shoot at baseballs, or better yet baseball players, while climbing up a mountain (sorry couldn't resist elle)

sounds like american gladiators

Iannis · 03-07-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Merauk_EOD
PVP oriented MMORPG's are hugely popular with the people who are good at PK'ing (which is the minority). They are hugely unpopular with the victims of said PK'ing (which is the majority). There diffently is a market place for them but I don't think it will ever be as broad of a market as PVE is for persistent games.

The other issue is that persistent games make money through subscription fee. One prick standing outside of town ganking newbies and then dancing on their graves makes those people quit. So the game company is forced to alter PVP so radically that the hard core people who love PVP quit and complain how PVP is always watered down. If they don't then the mass of sheep who have been being slaughtered quit because the game simply isn't fun for them. UO is a good example of this. They had an excellent PVP system upon release IMHO, but in order to keep the subscriber base they gradually had to tweak it till essentially it became a non-PVP game. DAOC has pulled way back on their PVP for the same reasons (and brought up blue servers).

Bingo. Get a set of ANTI-GRIEFER rules and you have a good game. Remove the fucking morons who think it's ubah l33t to gank the shit out of you every 5 minutes because they're bored, a helluva lot higher level than you, and just _there_, and you have a GOOD GAME.

DA was fun, when you understood there wouldn't be ANYTHING to do sometimes. PvP battles were fun assuming you weren't one of the cow classes that immediately was rendered incapable of doing anything. the wacky nerf pendulem of DA was not fun, because you had to endure their shitty PvE in order to be viable in Player Killing.

I'll check SB out...any of you boys from beta have a general feel for the players? Are there a lot of griefer fags, or is it people who actually want a good PK game?

DA's Bluebie server is called Co-Operative...and it's queer. =)
/rant off

Zorg · 03-07-2003, 08:02 PM

The biggest detriment, in my opinion, to a pure-PvP or largely PvP MMORPG is the griefing factor.

I've played muds where it was possible to kill anyone, at any time, in any way, and then to loot their entire corpse. And this was a mud with permanent death. But it worked out because people didn't kill needlessly.

With a game as large as Everquest, with fairly unrestricted PvP, you get a Sullon Zek. Where level 60+ griefers routinely rampage through newbie hunting grounds, where you'll be nuked to death when you're low on health after a fight with an NPC, and where you'll be corpsecamped so you effectively can't play.

Your Hero · 03-07-2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by findar
sounds like american gladiators

THOSE ARE TENNIS BALLS j00 N00B.

Quote:

Originally posted by Iannis
Bingo. Get a set of ANTI-GRIEFER rules and you have a good game. Remove the fucking morons who think it's ubah l33t to gank the shit out of you every 5 minutes because they're bored, a helluva lot higher level than you, and just _there_, and you have a GOOD GAME.

Are there a lot of griefer fags, or is it people who actually want a good PK game?

I'm 100% sure you were the person getting griefed.

It is actually quite fun to grief because you get a reaction out of people like your little spurt just now.

99% of the time when playing on SZ, if you are polite and ask for a loot and scoot you won't get griefed. If you tweak off and start calling people fags, etc they will cc you.

N00B

shin · 03-07-2003, 09:53 PM

I don't think PKing will be a major problem in SB... they seem to have a pretty good system to keep it in check. What I've gathered from the players in beta is that most of the player base is a lot more mature and doesn't go around ganking people.. that and n00bs can't be ganked, because you can't PK until 20+ and/or off the n00b island. If someone does choose to PK, for no reason, everyone will know about it, and it could cause serious problems for that player, such as them getting griefed until they quit/grow up. I don't think much of the PVP system has changed through the beta (not for sure, flame away if i'm wrong)...

renthin · 03-08-2003, 12:05 AM

I dunno. I am currently beta testing and am a 24 channeler (kinda like a eq wizard). For those who havent played it it is almost like a new diablo game. A lot of it directly resembles it. As for the pvp aspects of it your are correct. There is a safe noobie island and everywhere else except in towns is open pvp(accidently AoEd my group once). The basic PvE is laughable. As a channeler I can chain nuke in combat and all I gotta do is take a few steps back in combat and I am free to start nuking again. Although the game is extremely laggy at times. Some fights It will take 30 seconds to get a spell off, while melee combat seems only slightly affected by this. I havent actually tried any of the PvP or siege stuff yet(was kinda hoping on getting higher first). But, I do think it has potential.

03-07-2003, 05:59 AM	#1 (permalink)
Your Hero Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 264 +0 Internets	Shadowbane Gone Gold After half a century it has finally happened. linkage Personally I haven't played the game but I don't think it will do well. It is based on PVP and we all know how popular PVP is. People don't wanna fight intelligent beings whose actions are predetermined. Fights where you have to do something other than pound hotkeys. It just wont work. P.S. Not trying to offend anyone.

03-07-2003, 07:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,439 +16 Internets	Next thing you know 3d Realms will do something wacky and say Duke Nukem Forever has gone gold as well. __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

03-07-2003, 08:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
findar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,416 +0 Internets	shit, whats next? team fortress 2? __________________ -its clobbering time

03-08-2003, 12:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
renthin Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: ca Posts: 14 -1 Internets	re: sb I dunno. I am currently beta testing and am a 24 channeler (kinda like a eq wizard). For those who havent played it it is almost like a new diablo game. A lot of it directly resembles it. As for the pvp aspects of it your are correct. There is a safe noobie island and everywhere else except in towns is open pvp(accidently AoEd my group once). The basic PvE is laughable. As a channeler I can chain nuke in combat and all I gotta do is take a few steps back in combat and I am free to start nuking again. Although the game is extremely laggy at times. Some fights It will take 30 seconds to get a spell off, while melee combat seems only slightly affected by this. I havent actually tried any of the PvP or siege stuff yet(was kinda hoping on getting higher first). But, I do think it has potential.

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03-07-2003, 08:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
EllessarBard Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 69 -1 Internets	Personally I haven't played the game but I don't think it will do well. It is based on PVP and we all know how popular PVP is. People don't wanna fight intelligent beings whose actions are predetermined. Fights where you have to do something other than pound hotkeys. It just wont work. Even said sarcastically, thats a pretty stupid thing to say. PvP games are all over... and extremely popular. Most games are PvP. Its seriously rare to find a good multi-player PvE game; which is largely why EQ is so successful. The problem is of course the GAME; the type of things that make a good PvP GAME don't mix well with the things that make a good PvE GAME. By analogy.. I like skeet shooting, baseball, and mountain climbing. Each in itself is fun... but trying to combine all 3 into a single master sport... well, it would suck. I like PvP generally; but I hate PvP in EQ. I don't think it would be preferable to see in EQ either, and its something I hope they just abandon for EQ2. PvP is good. PvE is good. Its this half and half try to do everything crap that sucks.

03-07-2003, 12:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mecha Washu I join guilds for loot. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 83 -2 Internets	I hope Shadowbane actualy does ok, not saying that to make it sound like OMG SB is the next EQ killer!!11 but because EQ has no other real competition so for the most part they can just slack off and since they pretty much own the market they wont lose anyone but if there was an actual MMORPG that competed with them then they might kick it up a notch and we would see some improvements to get excited over again. Talking to my friend who watches wrestling he said something like how there used to be 2 differnt shows owned by differnt companys, the WWF and the WCW. He said that once WCW was bought out then WWF had no competition and started to go down hill shortly after because they didnt have a need to compete. That might sound kind of queer or whatever but it does make sense.

03-07-2003, 08:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zorg Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 37 -1 Internets	The biggest detriment, in my opinion, to a pure-PvP or largely PvP MMORPG is the griefing factor. I've played muds where it was possible to kill anyone, at any time, in any way, and then to loot their entire corpse. And this was a mud with permanent death. But it worked out because people didn't kill needlessly. With a game as large as Everquest, with fairly unrestricted PvP, you get a Sullon Zek. Where level 60+ griefers routinely rampage through newbie hunting grounds, where you'll be nuked to death when you're low on health after a fight with an NPC, and where you'll be corpsecamped so you effectively can't play.

03-07-2003, 09:53 PM	#14 (permalink)
shin pidget menis Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 47 -1 Internets	I don't think PKing will be a major problem in SB... they seem to have a pretty good system to keep it in check. What I've gathered from the players in beta is that most of the player base is a lot more mature and doesn't go around ganking people.. that and n00bs can't be ganked, because you can't PK until 20+ and/or off the n00b island. If someone does choose to PK, for no reason, everyone will know about it, and it could cause serious problems for that player, such as them getting griefed until they quit/grow up. I don't think much of the PVP system has changed through the beta (not for sure, flame away if i'm wrong)...