(non)Blowable spawns and such?

Dintorr · 03-06-2003, 01:59 PM

Can someone "dumb down" points 1-3 of Furor's latest update? I read it 3 or 4 times and I'm not sure what he's talkign about.

I'm only 54, so I haven't started hitting any of the high-end content yet which I'm sure is why it makes no sense to me.

Or I suppose y'all could just tell me to "stfu noob".

Either way.

Uber Uberest ~Rathe · 03-06-2003, 02:13 PM

OK I'll try.

The Corinav ring event is a timed event and if you die or run out of time that event is over. When the event is over you only get to attempt it in 7 days, it respawns every 7 days. The same thign was happening with AoW people would kill the Statue of Rallos Zek, which would trigger AoW, and not kill AoW. Eventually after like 20 minutes I believe AoW despawned until the statue was killed again. Statue respawn was 5 days I believe. They changed that by adding the Idol of Ralloz Zek, he spawned after Statue was killed and when the idol was killed AoW spawned. Thing is Idol stayed up until Statue respawned, I believe.
What Furor wants is for the Corinav event to have some sort of mob that can trigger it once every 2 days or somewhere around that point. It is just far to long of a wait as it is now. But he does not want the triggering spawn to drop uber loot. Because then the triggering spawn is farmed much like the Blood of Ssra was. People would kill the Blood of Ssra and then leave the Emp up to despawn because they could not handle him. A new Blood was put in place without loot so Emp could be spawned.

The second point has to do with the loot Corinav and I'm sure other mobs in PoW are dropping, they are total ass loot. That cord blows as well as the mantle. Other nicer items can be gotten against a much less tougher opponent. Furor wants this loot upgraded to be on par with how difficult the event is. The loot should be greater than VT loot as well as greater than Fenin Ro loot. Not sure about Xegony because I dont know who is easier Xegony or Corinav. And apparently chain legs do not drop often enough, but im sure you understood what he was saying there.

Point 3 is saying that certain people ar ebitching about abilities certain mobs have. They want these abilties taken away, Im assuming. Furor is saying if you take away these abilties any shitbag combination of fucktard guilds will be able to kill a mob by throwing massive numbers of people at it. Much like what happened with the 200 person zerg fest of Ralloz Zek on some server. All in all The mobs need to be made tougher, to prevent things like this from happening again, but if things are made tougher more people will complain becase they believe making the game easier is funner.

Hope that helps, and sorry if some of my shit is wrong but I quit playing right before PoP came out.

Thorbadin · 03-06-2003, 03:32 PM

I think the thing about hability is that they are trying to put more "depth" to it then what you see now. I don't have the quotes from the interview I read on mobhunter, but was something like that.

It's a good idea also. Rampage, if tuned correctly could basically recreate the feeling that you have to deal with multiple source of dmg, similar to having adds.

The problem with rampage as I see it is you can avoid most of it and still win. Be it ae rampage or simply using ventani style fight on mob that rape too much. Here are a few thing they could upgrade rampage to, to make it more interesting. Obviously they would have to tune some of the encounters or they could be nearly unkilleable.

1) Make different type of rampage based on mobs. Some mob could have random rampage completly, other could be using the hate list, etc.

2) Make it possible that the actual rampage attack not be a full normal round. Some mob could hit for half on rampage, or a certain type of rampage make it so that a mob can only land 1 attack on your per rampage but will hit 3 other person if it quad, etc.

3) In the case that there is no additionnal melee in range of rampage, make rampage hit the MT. This would ensure that no MT would ever survive without additionnal tank.

4) You could make it so that rampage has unlimited range again for some mob. This could suck but just remember that a mob like magnaton could probably take a fucking rock from the ground and kill any wizard at 300 feet with it.

5) Assuming that a mob cannot hit the MT with rampage, if no additionnal target in rampage range the mob could use it's hability to summon to get someone in range which would force people to have rampage tank again.

Etc.

By adding part of this to some of the high end mob and retuning encounters, they could make it so that melee are once again needed to fight at the mob and to tank. This would make having more then 1 MT usefull again.

By itself just having melee around a mob would make positionning for ae/ch alot more chaotic which would be a good opportunity for your guild to show that they can in fact not push the mob up the firepot and wipe the raid this time.

IMO the same deal could be said for AE. AE need to be resistable. At least for the rape type ae. Having multiple AE with different dmg on same mob with random timer/proc if possible that are resistable would also make certain the gear and capacity of your guild to heal and/or survive in harsh conditions are tested. Having a 3k ae with a dot/mana drain that check at -400 fire resist is just asking people to simply stay out of ae and watch.

All the uber boss could at least have 1 type of long range ae possibly not too rape in order to avoid the afk wizard syndrome. But maybe the hate list change they are putting in will take care of that already.

Anyway, just throwing ideas around, don't take this for more then it is.

One thing I know for sure is that alot of high end fight suck alot for melee and I hope they do something about it.

Thorbadin
Triton

Vikki · 03-06-2003, 03:39 PM

Actually I think what Furor was asking for was that the mini bosses that drop loot in the ring encounter only respawn once a week, and have the encounter be instantly (or a much shorter time than one week) redoable, but you can only get loot off the minis you hadn't killed and the old minis get replaced by equal difficult, non loot-dropping placeholders., as well as Coirnav, and once Coirnav was down, the encounter would be undoable until he got back up... And the minis themselves on a 7 day respawn over the placeholders assuming Coirnav was not killed. As he compared to the Blood/Emperor encounter I would assume that's what he meant.

Uber Uberest ~Rathe · 03-06-2003, 03:52 PM

Vikki that makes no sense.

Rhavenn · 03-06-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vikki
Actually I think what Furor was asking for was that the mini bosses that drop loot in the ring encounter only respawn once a week, and have the encounter be instantly (or a much shorter time than one week) redoable, but you can only get loot off the minis you hadn't killed and the old minis get replaced by equal difficult, non loot-dropping placeholders., as well as Coirnav, and once Coirnav was down, the encounter would be undoable until he got back up... And the minis themselves on a 7 day respawn over the placeholders assuming Coirnav was not killed. As he compared to the Blood/Emperor encounter I would assume that's what he meant.

What? Thats one long fucking sentence...

Lin · 03-06-2003, 05:37 PM

Unless mobs have protection, like dragons/giants used to, so can only be cast on in melee range, then AE rampage is unfair and stupid. Enrage is retarded as all hell.

Merrith · 03-06-2003, 05:56 PM

Sounds like all the guilds that took down Cor were all very close since they all happened within about a week or so, and considering all of them have noted how ghey it is for it to be a blowable spawn if it were along the lines of doable every 2 days or so they would've all probably had it done a while back...can see why they would be upset...getting ass loot is a further "Ha ha we're even gayer than you thought!" message to the uber guilds...I'm sure the Rathe will be even worse, and god knows what fun will await in Time. But hey, lets be optimistic

~MM

Pokn · 03-06-2003, 06:44 PM

Just an FYI...

Idol use to bumrush people fighting in the Arena because of his massive agro range. That lasted bout a week

The Idol use to stay up longer than Statue respawn (not sure if that's still true, havn't been in SoV in a long time). This has allowed some multiple AoW days.

Furor's post was just saying WTF! get a clue, Verant!

And his examples simply are pointing out that the encounters that shouldn't be blowable have the STUPIDEST setup... ie the trigger being a "lesser" loot mob like Statue, or Blood. On the flip side the encounters that have been made redoable at almost no downtime like RZ make it far, far too easy...

So he asks for Balance between the two.

I'd probably add... Look at how the Cursed spawn works. Imo that is a nice "balanced" encounter between too fast to restart and being able to have another shot at the encounter. More triggered encounters/bosses should use something like Cursed cycle as a template.

Why Verant keeps using the templates that just get changed (and have ALREADY BEEN CHANGED these encounters go live to begin with) is ridiculous.

Vikki · 03-06-2003, 08:00 PM

Ah well, it made sense when I typed it. =p

Flamebait · 03-06-2003, 09:05 PM

My gut says the Rathe will be a lootfest because of the number of boss-type mobs that make up the end "guy" and it's due for a good loot end encounter. Xegony = good lewt, Coirnav + Fennin = not so good loot. Rathe = good lewt.

Uber Uberest ~Rathe · 03-06-2003, 09:31 PM

Flamebait Fennins loot owns.

03-06-2003, 01:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
Dintorr space accountant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Atlanta, Chocolate City, USA Posts: 771 -2 Internets	(non)Blowable spawns and such? Can someone "dumb down" points 1-3 of Furor's latest update? I read it 3 or 4 times and I'm not sure what he's talkign about. I'm only 54, so I haven't started hitting any of the high-end content yet which I'm sure is why it makes no sense to me. Or I suppose y'all could just tell me to "stfu noob". Either way.

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03-06-2003, 02:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Uber Uberest ~Rathe Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 1,710 +0 Internets	OK I'll try. The Corinav ring event is a timed event and if you die or run out of time that event is over. When the event is over you only get to attempt it in 7 days, it respawns every 7 days. The same thign was happening with AoW people would kill the Statue of Rallos Zek, which would trigger AoW, and not kill AoW. Eventually after like 20 minutes I believe AoW despawned until the statue was killed again. Statue respawn was 5 days I believe. They changed that by adding the Idol of Ralloz Zek, he spawned after Statue was killed and when the idol was killed AoW spawned. Thing is Idol stayed up until Statue respawned, I believe. What Furor wants is for the Corinav event to have some sort of mob that can trigger it once every 2 days or somewhere around that point. It is just far to long of a wait as it is now. But he does not want the triggering spawn to drop uber loot. Because then the triggering spawn is farmed much like the Blood of Ssra was. People would kill the Blood of Ssra and then leave the Emp up to despawn because they could not handle him. A new Blood was put in place without loot so Emp could be spawned. The second point has to do with the loot Corinav and I'm sure other mobs in PoW are dropping, they are total ass loot. That cord blows as well as the mantle. Other nicer items can be gotten against a much less tougher opponent. Furor wants this loot upgraded to be on par with how difficult the event is. The loot should be greater than VT loot as well as greater than Fenin Ro loot. Not sure about Xegony because I dont know who is easier Xegony or Corinav. And apparently chain legs do not drop often enough, but im sure you understood what he was saying there. Point 3 is saying that certain people ar ebitching about abilities certain mobs have. They want these abilties taken away, Im assuming. Furor is saying if you take away these abilties any shitbag combination of fucktard guilds will be able to kill a mob by throwing massive numbers of people at it. Much like what happened with the 200 person zerg fest of Ralloz Zek on some server. All in all The mobs need to be made tougher, to prevent things like this from happening again, but if things are made tougher more people will complain becase they believe making the game easier is funner. Hope that helps, and sorry if some of my shit is wrong but I quit playing right before PoP came out.

03-06-2003, 03:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Thorbadin Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 453 -1 Internets	I think the thing about hability is that they are trying to put more "depth" to it then what you see now. I don't have the quotes from the interview I read on mobhunter, but was something like that. It's a good idea also. Rampage, if tuned correctly could basically recreate the feeling that you have to deal with multiple source of dmg, similar to having adds. The problem with rampage as I see it is you can avoid most of it and still win. Be it ae rampage or simply using ventani style fight on mob that rape too much. Here are a few thing they could upgrade rampage to, to make it more interesting. Obviously they would have to tune some of the encounters or they could be nearly unkilleable. 1) Make different type of rampage based on mobs. Some mob could have random rampage completly, other could be using the hate list, etc. 2) Make it possible that the actual rampage attack not be a full normal round. Some mob could hit for half on rampage, or a certain type of rampage make it so that a mob can only land 1 attack on your per rampage but will hit 3 other person if it quad, etc. 3) In the case that there is no additionnal melee in range of rampage, make rampage hit the MT. This would ensure that no MT would ever survive without additionnal tank. 4) You could make it so that rampage has unlimited range again for some mob. This could suck but just remember that a mob like magnaton could probably take a fucking rock from the ground and kill any wizard at 300 feet with it. 5) Assuming that a mob cannot hit the MT with rampage, if no additionnal target in rampage range the mob could use it's hability to summon to get someone in range which would force people to have rampage tank again. Etc. By adding part of this to some of the high end mob and retuning encounters, they could make it so that melee are once again needed to fight at the mob and to tank. This would make having more then 1 MT usefull again. By itself just having melee around a mob would make positionning for ae/ch alot more chaotic which would be a good opportunity for your guild to show that they can in fact not push the mob up the firepot and wipe the raid this time. IMO the same deal could be said for AE. AE need to be resistable. At least for the rape type ae. Having multiple AE with different dmg on same mob with random timer/proc if possible that are resistable would also make certain the gear and capacity of your guild to heal and/or survive in harsh conditions are tested. Having a 3k ae with a dot/mana drain that check at -400 fire resist is just asking people to simply stay out of ae and watch. All the uber boss could at least have 1 type of long range ae possibly not too rape in order to avoid the afk wizard syndrome. But maybe the hate list change they are putting in will take care of that already. Anyway, just throwing ideas around, don't take this for more then it is. One thing I know for sure is that alot of high end fight suck alot for melee and I hope they do something about it. Thorbadin Triton

03-06-2003, 03:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Vikki Vikki Scores a critical hit!(121) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 105 -1 Internets	Actually I think what Furor was asking for was that the mini bosses that drop loot in the ring encounter only respawn once a week, and have the encounter be instantly (or a much shorter time than one week) redoable, but you can only get loot off the minis you hadn't killed and the old minis get replaced by equal difficult, non loot-dropping placeholders., as well as Coirnav, and once Coirnav was down, the encounter would be undoable until he got back up... And the minis themselves on a 7 day respawn over the placeholders assuming Coirnav was not killed. As he compared to the Blood/Emperor encounter I would assume that's what he meant.

03-06-2003, 03:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Uber Uberest ~Rathe Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 1,710 +0 Internets	Vikki that makes no sense.

03-06-2003, 05:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lin Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 879 +0 Internets	Unless mobs have protection, like dragons/giants used to, so can only be cast on in melee range, then AE rampage is unfair and stupid. Enrage is retarded as all hell.

03-06-2003, 05:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Merrith Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 56 -1 Internets	Sounds like all the guilds that took down Cor were all very close since they all happened within about a week or so, and considering all of them have noted how ghey it is for it to be a blowable spawn if it were along the lines of doable every 2 days or so they would've all probably had it done a while back...can see why they would be upset...getting ass loot is a further "Ha ha we're even gayer than you thought!" message to the uber guilds...I'm sure the Rathe will be even worse, and god knows what fun will await in Time. But hey, lets be optimistic ~MM

03-06-2003, 06:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pokn Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 139 -1 Internets	Just an FYI... Idol use to bumrush people fighting in the Arena because of his massive agro range. That lasted bout a week The Idol use to stay up longer than Statue respawn (not sure if that's still true, havn't been in SoV in a long time). This has allowed some multiple AoW days. Furor's post was just saying WTF! get a clue, Verant! And his examples simply are pointing out that the encounters that shouldn't be blowable have the STUPIDEST setup... ie the trigger being a "lesser" loot mob like Statue, or Blood. On the flip side the encounters that have been made redoable at almost no downtime like RZ make it far, far too easy... So he asks for Balance between the two. I'd probably add... Look at how the Cursed spawn works. Imo that is a nice "balanced" encounter between too fast to restart and being able to have another shot at the encounter. More triggered encounters/bosses should use something like Cursed cycle as a template. Why Verant keeps using the templates that just get changed (and have ALREADY BEEN CHANGED these encounters go live to begin with) is ridiculous.

03-06-2003, 08:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
Vikki Vikki Scores a critical hit!(121) Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 105 -1 Internets	Ah well, it made sense when I typed it. =p

03-06-2003, 09:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
Flamebait Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 30 -1 Internets	My gut says the Rathe will be a lootfest because of the number of boss-type mobs that make up the end "guy" and it's due for a good loot end encounter. Xegony = good lewt, Coirnav + Fennin = not so good loot. Rathe = good lewt.

03-06-2003, 09:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Uber Uberest ~Rathe Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 1,710 +0 Internets	Flamebait Fennins loot owns.