Bard Charm - Tune It or Delete It

[Benren]

That is some of the stupidest flamebait I've ever seen.

[Nanyea]

Well, I have a chanter or two... and a bard level 65... love my chanter HATE my bard...

Bards got a few things going for them other then arthritis (which if you own a joystick with hotkeys you dont have thanks microsoft sidewinder pro): excellent mana regen unrivaled in fact by any class, one hella war song that basically haste caps anyone with a decent haste item along with adding alot of pure +attack, decent slow song, unrivaled resist songs, good to outstanding CC abilities on small to medium pulls... and unrivaled on the largest pulls where yer snare kiting or selos, did i mention the best speed in game?, stackable damage shields, 180+DPS w/o charming (note for you morons thats pure melee + damage shields + bello) , hmmn the list goes on and on.... ever seen how high a bard can crit nuke? over and over and over...

Basically like all skill classes if your a gimp piece of shit... no matter what spells abilities they give you.. guess what... yer still a gimp

But if you truly understand yer class and take advantage of all its abilites of which the bard has many outstanding ones... enough said

BTW I hate my bard because of how powerful she is compared to my first love ENCHANTER

[Benren]

First of all, your 180 DPS number is a bit high. I'd say some of the most well-fleshed bards in the game have a hard time meeting this DPS, and if it even were possible, this is not sustained DPS by any means.

Just to get that sort of DPS, using the methods you described, you'd be looking at...

6 General AA (req)
12 Arch AA (req)
Singing Mastery 3 (another 12 AA)
Ambidexterity (9 AA)
Harmonious Attack 5 (10 AA)
SCF3 (Can't remember the exact number off the top of my head, either 6 or 9 AA)

Then, you're going to need a Shadowsong Cloak from Shei in Akheva. And you're going to need to blow your Puretone disc. That's a lot of AA and gear setup just for sub-200 DPS that's only achievable once every 72 minutes and only for a few moments, usually the tail-end of an uber fight. Most bards I know don't have points in SCF, much less SCF3.

basically haste caps anyone

Even if this were cause for celebration, this is not a rare ability. It is common to be able to push your haste cap. Besides that, the words "haste cap" mean nothing to us. Rizlona's is a song of raw power, and is one of our few, unparalleled strengths... seeing as we're the only folks that can do that sort of thing.

along with adding alot of pure +attack

Not a lot. The epic procs more attack for most of us, and the epic only grants 40 attack. The attack components of MRR and WoZ are nothing to write home about... they're just nice additions that help push that epic attack up a bit further, not the other way around. (Most of my own personal attack comes from Avatar. =P)

did i mention the best speed in game

I don't know how many times its been said by countless bards, but Selo's should not count for or against us when it comes to combat balancing, because it is not used in combat. Saying that bards have Selo's and should be denied improvements, or should see nerfs, is like saying the same of druids because they can teleport. The abilities hold no bearing in combat. Besides that, there are horses in the game as of now that are 97% maximum, capped bard speed... and Fleet of Foot, our speed AA, doesn't work.

stackable damage shields

Stackable damage shield. Singular.


Now that that's done.

Nobody is saying that the bard class is in a bad way. This entire thread, which for some reason is being targeted by idiots that lack 3rd-grade level reading comprehension, is focused on one thing and one thing only - OUR CHARM DOES NOT WORK IN POP. That's it. This is not a "Bards suck!" post. This is not a "Bards need a nerf!" post. This is not "This class is better!" This isn't even "This class's charm is better!" Bard charm does not work in PoP. Period. That's it. Read it again. Sink it in. Get it through your head.

To the idiot flamebaiter, I'll say this. I'll call you. I'd like to see one class with a spell line... and you know what? you can make it any spell line you choose... that only works in Tier 1. But the spell line you choose must meet the following criteria.

-It must see an upgrade in PoP.

That's it. Show me one class that has any spell line that does not work past Tier 1 in PoP that has recieved an upgraded 60+ version that still does not work past Tier 1, and you can flame me all you like.

[EllessarBard]

I got a chanter to level 51 in 1 day, 8 hours.... soloing. Which is to say, I know everything about the enchanter class that is worth knowing. I have even been on (several) Vox and nagafen raids. Talk about an over powered class that needs to be nerfed badly. A chanter can get 600+ DPS easy by charming a mob. Triple what a theoretical bard is doing... and since the bard is doing damage shields... only 1 of them can do that... every chanter on a raid can get a pet..

Ever see a bard solo a named in BoT? I thought NOT.

Seriously... an enchanter talking about bard's being overpowered is smoking the crack they are supposed to be buffing the cleric with!

They've got better hastes, better slows, better mezzes, better charms, and an entire trade skill devoted to them! The 1000000000pp that they got from JC can buy them the fastest horse and all the gate potions they can carry! so they get around faster than bards too!

and not only that: They get all the cool illusions! And they can cast them on others! and their gnome form never wears off when the cast it on themselves, having this unsightly transformation to one of the lesser races!

NERF THE CHANTERS!

NERF THE CHANTERS NOW!

and give the poor, needy bards a real charm song. ;-)

[BirgittePovar]

Originally posted by Benren
To the idiot flamebaiter, I'll say this. I'll call you. I'd like to see one class with a spell line... and you know what? you can make it any spell line you choose... that only works in Tier 1. But the spell line you choose must meet the following criteria.

-It must see an upgrade in PoP.

That's it. Show me one class that has any spell line that does not work past Tier 1 in PoP that has recieved an upgraded 60+ version that still does not work past Tier 1, and you can flame me all you like.

No, I'm sorry, I don't need to do this. You know why? Because this wasn't in your original case...you go back, add another clause(which adds nothing to your argument at all), and then claim I'm a flamebaiter because I read your argument and not some imaginary clause you trumped up?

Tell me why it's worse to have a line of spells that becomes useless rather than a line that is never useful to begin with. If you can't do that, then maybe you are the worthless flamebaiter.

[Benren]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Did you actually just make a snipey little whine about how you have spells that were never useful at all to a bard?

I hate to break this to you, but I've got about 15 seperate functions and lines I've never used, just because they're absolutely useless. None of us have. Some of our songs don't work at all. As a matter of fact, we just had two new cure songs added because our previous two cure songs don't work. Imagine that. You have cures, but they don't work, so they give you new cures, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIX THE OLD CURES.

[BirgittePovar]

Originally posted by Benren
HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Did you actually just make a snipey little whine about how you have spells that were never useful at all to a bard?

I hate to break this to you, but I've got about 15 seperate functions and lines I've never used, just because they're absolutely useless. None of us have. Some of our songs don't work at all. As a matter of fact, we just had two new cure songs added because our previous two cure songs don't work. Imagine that. You have cures, but they don't work, so they give you new cures, BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIX THE OLD CURES.

Do you know what my primary character was for over a year? A bard. You don't get what I'm saying at all.

Bards having a line that's no longer useful is not that big of deal. Every class, and I mean *every* class, has something that you could argue along this exact same line. You have given no reason what-so-ever why Bard Charm matters enough, or is different enough, to warrant the attention you are paying it. On the contrary, it looks to me (and others) as if you are just upset that Enchanters and others have an insanely powerful charm in PoP and you don't, thus you whine.

So I'll repeat the request that you completely ignored. Tell me why it is somehow worse that you had a very useful line that became useless, then for you to have had a line that was useless all along?

[Sir Yakk]

So I'll repeat the request that you completely ignored. Tell me why it is somehow worse that you had a very useful line that became useless, then for you to have had a line that was useless all along?

Because one is balanced based on an ability that exists, and it was removed.

Because the play style of a class was changed for no good reason -- you could give clerics uber nukes and wizards uber heals in PoP, and it would be balanced, but it would be a change for no good reason.

Really, kick the level on bard charm up a bit, and/or add more lower level mobs in later tier zones. The fact that many spells simply don't work in zones that you enter BEFORE you get the spell just seems wrong.

[BirgittePovar]

Originally posted by Sir Yakk


Because one is balanced based on an ability that exists, and it was removed.

Because the play style of a class was changed for no good reason -- you could give clerics uber nukes and wizards uber heals in PoP, and it would be balanced, but it would be a change for no good reason.

Really, kick the level on bard charm up a bit, and/or add more lower level mobs in later tier zones. The fact that many spells simply don't work in zones that you enter BEFORE you get the spell just seems wrong.

It was not removed. It was even upgraded. You can charm everything you used to be able to, and even more now. Sheesh, you whining bards remind me of those who get a 10% raise, hear of someone who gets a 20% raise, and whine that your raise sucked. Bards are, were, and always have been overpowered at best. Bards are such because Verant doesn't understand them adequately to realize just how much they can do. Admittedly, they do get broken by every other patch...but this doesn't change just how much they can do when they are not broken.

[Parum]

It was not removed.

My ability to use it in any normal circumstance is gone. How is this not removed?

Parum

[Furor Planedefiler]

is that some developer probably did read it and became even stupider in the process.

Like we fucking needed that... good job men.

[Mosiah Manaforger]

/roflmao

Furor, thanks, best laugh I have had all week.