Command of Druzzil exploit, fix?

[KorenskySZ]

Yeah Enchanters have had charm thoughtout their careers.. however they have never been able to rake in the exp the way they have been recently.

you're right, but only insofar as *everyone* is getting better xp in PoP than ever before. As my numbers on page 3 of this thread indicate (tho my conclusions were admittedly silly wrong~), enchanters got a 56% upgrade in xp gained with PoP, while the traditional uber group got an increase of 50%.

Competent soloists have always gotten better xp than groups. Since day 1 of EQ.

Unless my assumptions about soloist/group xp times are incorrect, which no one has yet addressed, yes I will agree that Command of Druzzil has allowed the very best enchanters in EQ to pull ahead of groups by an additional 6%, relative to what they were doing pre-PoP. Hardly the kindling for nerfage.

[Maegril]

Originally posted by Aflack Saryrn
Ill just end with this, as, obviously I'm not going to convince anyone, and they are not going to convince me either.



Since when was charming something that wasnt "traditional" for Enchanters. let me say this one more time. Charm is a spell we had since level 12. Ive used the charm line consistantly ever since level 35. Since when was it tradition for us to sit there, crack the group and slow mobs. Hell pre-pop I rarely slowed mobs in sebalis, was no need. I have ALWAYS gotten better xp soloing than I have in groups. This didnt just spring up with PoP. It has always been there. Same with druids, they get their first charm spell at level 24. How is that not a "traidional" way to xp, when they have had that spell since then? Have you ever seen a druid charm solo pre-pop? Have you ever seen a Enchanter solo pre-pop? If not, then you didnt get out much at all.

K. Lemme break it down into as few syllables as possible:

Charm mob that does 150% of a character's damage: Not broken.

Charm mob that does 150% of a full group's damage: Broken.

[Lin]

Im not doubting CoD is a powerful spell. But so are a lot of spells post 63+ that other class have. So are the skills that other class get. Ever see a ranger with all of their archery skills maxed out? DPS is about 180+ with it. Takes about 3 min to kill a mob in PoV, which translates to about a AA per 40 min or so, also with MUCH less risk that a Enchanter goes through. Or a necro with some of their spells, takes them about 30 min to get a AA as well, again has less of a risk of dieing than a enchanter. When i fight with CoD, i get a AA in about 50min to a hour.

Holy fuck, a ranger can get an AA in 40 minutes with 180dps but it takes you 50 with CoD? Maybe you should charm things that have more than 90dps. Stop trying to hide how much better having 800dps pets is, you're just making yourself look incompatent or stupid.

Stupidest comment I've ever seen. Why aren't you still using your newbie dagger or sword? Why aren't you using your level 4 nuke anymore? Oh that's right because as you level you get upgrades.

Dumbfuck.

Turonyen
Level 65 Enchanter
Tholuxe Paells

There is a difference between the level 12 charm spell and boltran/command, making Aflak's comparison meaningless. I pointed that out and had you the reading comprehension of at least a banana slug you'd have understood that. Sadly all you're good for is drooling and ad hominem so I'll hold your hand and paint a big pretty picture for you.

This is just for Turonyen, the rest of you can quit here btw:

Charm, which is the level 12 enchanter spell, (conviently named to save confusing Turonyen here) works on monsters below a certain level. These monsters are about as powerful as the people on your short yellow bus, you know, all those lose wristed slap fights that break out when someone says someone else has cooties. i.e. it has a level cap. And while these monsters may be big and scary back then, a naked rogue with a pointy stick can still kill them handily. Command of Tunare (oh dear, 3 word name, hope Turonyen was able to keep up) however has a different level cap, it can charm big scary monsters which are like Hitler*. Remember when your mommy told you about Hitler and said he was this big evil person that ate half of europe, well Command of Tunare could charm him and then you could eat half of europe and an army of naked rogues with pointy sticks couldn't stop you. So do you see now Turonyen, they're different.

* - Godwin's Law has been invoked. i.e. shut up retards.

[Liz]

Originally posted by Rthen
I have an enchanter friend.

Why should theysacrifice their exping being saddled with a class that cannot pull their own? The pulls are only marginally faster for them duoed with another class..

Now if you are truely saddling him and cannot pull your own then maybe you suck?

My typical exp group usually includes War, Dru, Ench; however we usually invite lfg guildies to join so long as they aren't slackers and dont' suck (yes we even let mages join).

My last aa/20 minute (maybe less) exp group consisted of: Bard, Mage, Druid, Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter. Just to make sure you saw that I did say MAGE, and he did pull his own and no he didn't saddle any of us (i.e., he didn't slack and he didn't suck).

[Liz]

quote:
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Yeah Enchanters have had charm thoughtout their careers.. however they have never been able to rake in the exp the way they have been recently.
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Prior to PoP enchanters could charm elysians and rake in exp at a significant rate (duoing we could get aa/30mins, trio aa/35-40 mins all at lvl 60).

What you seem to be forgetting is that everyone is getting more exp now from the mobs that they are killing B/C they are all HIGHER LVL.

[Maegril]

Originally posted by Liz


Now if you are truely saddling him and cannot pull your own then maybe you suck?

My typical exp group usually includes War, Dru, Ench; however we usually invite lfg guildies to join so long as they aren't slackers and dont' suck (yes we even let mages join).

My last aa/20 minute (maybe less) exp group consisted of: Bard, Mage, Druid, Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter. Just to make sure you saw that I did say MAGE, and he did pull his own and no he didn't saddle any of us (i.e., he didn't slack and he didn't suck).

Lessee.. bard, mage, druid, warrior, cleric, enchanter.

Just a humble suggestion: Proving that charm doesn't completely invalidate the need for melee or, in fact, provide the complete melee output of a full group anyway, might be easier if you used example groups which include melee.

Of the mage/druid/enchanter, how many of y'all were using charmed pets, out of curiosity?

[KorenskySZ]

(Hitler reference cant be made with the sole purpose of ending the thread, else the reference is null)

Please just look at the end and not the means, thats all im asking. Yes, our pets hit like Mack trucks, but whats the net result in an xp situation? I get an aa in about half the time a full group of players. This is NOTHING NEW . Ive been doing this since charmed pet kills gave full xp as long as the caster did 1+ damage to them.

One could easily make an argument for a return to the old system with regards to charmed pets- that would cut my xp rate down to about what a group of endgame players does. My only argument against this is that rewarding me the same as a group who sits in one place and chain pulls is simply not fair. I take far more risks in what I do, require far more skill and concentration, and should in my opinion be rewarded for my extra effort.

Obviously you disagree - probably because your chosen class, no matter how well played, does not allow you the option to do what I do with Command of Druzzil. I would advise you to consider asking VI to make this feasible, rather than try to get a class that has the option nerfed. While I certainly sympathize with the plight of melee being non-viable soloists, I believe it is a seperate issue and not a reason to nerf an xp rate which has existed since Luclin.

[Liz]

Originally posted by Maegril


Lessee.. bard, mage, druid, warrior, cleric, enchanter.

Just a humble suggestion: Proving that charm doesn't completely invalidate the need for melee or, in fact, provide the complete melee output of a full group anyway, might be easier if you used example groups which include melee.

Of the mage/druid/enchanter, how many of y'all were using charmed pets, out of curiosity?

First melee adds to the advantage of charm. Having a war, sk or pal (tbh it doesn't matter which) tanking the mob does several things.
1) allows the pet to hit from behind, thus hitting for max damage more often, making stuff die faster
2) prevents the pet from taking a lot of damage, thus not having to recycle the pet or worse trying to heal it
3) keeps our warrior friend happy b/c he gets exp and well he has been know to save our asses from time to time by being there

If you notice I did say that full group can get the same amount of aa's in the same time period as an ench soloing. For that to be the case there has to be more than just the pet doing damage. More simply put shit has to be dying a helluva lot faster than it was w/ench pet solo to give 6 ppl the same amout of exp in the same time period.

As for your how many pets question... The ench was really the only one charming. Mage typically used water pet i think and the Druid would charm a piggy everyonce in a blue moon till charm broke and we keeled it (btw - the druid's piggy was usually slowed by the time it got charmed). tbh i don't think i would want 3 charmed pets running around, way too much shit could go wrong.

edit - since you want a better example... Back when HoH was the place to be we would do our typical trio of Druid, War, Ench on a regular basis, filling in with whoever was lfg. When we added 2 Rogues and a Ranger the Warrior had to turn attack off at 30% or die to enrage, he didn't have to do that with just the pet.

[Turonyen]

If only you would make the same effort in your arguments as you do in your insults, you might be able to pass off as actually having the I.Q. of a fish someday. Too bad you don't have an actual argument or point to make in that cesspool of a post since I never argued to begin with.

There is a difference between the level 12 charm spell and boltran/command, making Aflak's comparison meaningless. I pointed that out and had you the reading comprehension of at least a banana slug you'd have understood that. Sadly all you're good for is drooling and ad hominem so I'll hold your hand and paint a big pretty picture for you.

No shit there is a difference sherlock. One is higher level then the other and thus more powerful. It's the same spell line though. What the heck does that have to do with your comment telling a level 65 Enchanter to use his level 12 charm? Because it's called 'Charm'? He's obviously talking about the spell line here.

Let's say we were talking about Voice of Quellious being too powerful for enchanters or something. Change what he said to 'Enchanters have had clarity since level 29, meaning it's something that has been in our spellbook for a very long time, it didn't just pop on us in PoP'. Would you be telling him to use his level 29 clarity? You talk about reading comprehension. I don't think you even read your own comments, let alone what other people say.

This is just for Turonyen, the rest of you can quit here btw:

Charm, which is the level 12 enchanter spell, (conviently named to save confusing Turonyen here) works on monsters below a certain level. These monsters are about as powerful as the people on your short yellow bus, you know, all those lose wristed slap fights that break out when someone says someone else has cooties. i.e. it has a level cap. And while these monsters may be big and scary back then, a naked rogue with a pointy stick can still kill them handily. Command of Tunare (oh dear, 3 word name, hope Turonyen was able to keep up) however has a different level cap, it can charm big scary monsters which are like Hitler*. Remember when your mommy told you about Hitler and said he was this big evil person that ate half of europe, well Command of Tunare could charm him and then you could eat half of europe and an army of naked rogues with pointy sticks couldn't stop you. So do you see now Turonyen, they're different.

* - Godwin's Law has been invoked. i.e. shut up retards. [/b]

Lots of words to say so little. So nice of you to take your time to write such a nice bedtime story for me.

You know what's the best part about it is though?

Your whole post trying to 'own' me is all in void since you couldn't even comprehend what the original poster was saying. So you were basically arguing with yourself here since there was no point to make other then you were retarded for not even comprehending the original post. And you proved it yet again by your reply by not even recognizing I was calling you a dumbfuck because you can't comprehend or read.

Thanks, come again.

Turonyen
Level 65 Enchanter
Tholuxe Paells

[Drinn]

Charm is too strong and you know it

That is all

[Turonyen]

BTW Liz if you haven't noticed I'm only pissing in your cereal. I'm tired of all of these CoD arguments which never solve anything is all.

[Liz]

Originally posted by Drinn
Charm is too strong and you know it

That is all

has anyone here said charm is not strong? no one is denying that charm is a strong skill. the risk that goes w/charm is also strong.

For that matter...

The ability to CHeal is strong and so is the ability to heal in 1.5 seconds.
AIM/EQ is strong
The ability to quad kite is strong
The ability to tank mobs that hit for 2k and up is strong
blah, blah, blah...


TBH I think you're just crying b/c enchanters don't need you as much as you feel that you need them. If you want the perfect group go make friends with people and group with them regularly. No one owes you a group but if you go "make friends" you're far more likely to get one.

[Drinn]

Originally posted by Liz


has anyone here said charm is not strong? no one is denying that charm is a strong skill. the risk that goes w/charm is also strong.

...

TBH I think you're just crying b/c enchanters don't need you as much as you feel that you need them. If you want the perfect group go make friends with people and group with them regularly. No one owes you a group but if you go "make friends" you're far more likely to get one.

There is no risk in pop, there's a graveyard, congrats, you now have 3 hours to get a cleric to take 2 mins out of his day and come rez you. I do just fine grouping too, thanks for your concern. That doesn't change the fact charm is very much overpowered currently.

[Turonyen]

Ack just noticed I was refering to Lin not Liz LoL. Sorry Liz, my posts are meant for Lin Your names are too similar.

Turonyen

[Liz]

Originally posted by Drinn


There is no risk in pop, there's a graveyard, congrats, you now have 3 hours to get a cleric to take 2 mins out of his day and come rez you. I do just fine grouping too, thanks for your concern. That doesn't change the fact charm is very much overpowered currently.

If you want to use that logic than it's safe to say there is no risk anywhere that you can corpse summon. After all if you can get a cleric you can get a necro too right? I can't think of one time I've actually waited for the GY while exping except in elemental zones.

Last time i checked cleric's don't normally go around Divine Rezzing people so there is that small 4% loss that does add up over time, then the down time to med up and rebuff (don't say just gather mana b/c most enches wouldn't waste it on death, they would save it for an emergency)

You also seem to assume that eq is all about exp groups. There's this otherside, the side I spend the majority of my time doing, you know those things where you go keel big mean baddies. Now charm is a nice little dps boost on raids BUT you can't tell me a broken pet plowing through your healers isn't risky.