PoP = The Death of the casual/semi-casual player - Page 2

Gargazon · 01-07-2003, 11:59 PM

I think that this post does have one element of truth to it. It is the death of the casual gamer...but not most casual gamers. The crowd that will most likely quit are the level 60ish HoT geared types.

Now I could be wrong but...
The way I see things is like this. Since EQ came out I have always been the guy in the guilds that don't quite hit uber status. The two exceptions to this were a guild where all the people with the best gear left and I hadn't been in it long enough to be in that crowd, and recently my guild split with about 1/2 going to one of the 2 top guilds and the other half going to the other.

I quickly found out though that I didn't have the AA or the gear to play the same game as the guild I was apping. So I left so because frankly, I needed to level up and get a lot more AA before I could really be an effective tank for them.

The whole time I have played EQ I have been one step behind, with the uber status just out of my reach. Not anymore. I don't see a way for me to be able to reach the same status as those in the top guilds on my server. PoP completely changed the game, for many reasons. Some good, some not so good.

I am not the only one in this situation, many of my friends in similar situations have already left, and I have more who are talking about leaving.

It is pretty discouraging for the players who have done most of the stuff in the game before PoP, but now have no real chance to access most of the content of the new expansion.

What did I do about it? I stayed unguilded for over a month while I decided what I wanted to do, and finally recently joined a guild with a more casual playing style. I am definately having to make some adjustments because I am used to raiding pretty much every day, but the trade off is a much more relaxed game for me. I also have the benefit that most of the people I play with now I can actually get to know, instead of getting bits and pieces over raid chat. Not knowing most of the people you associate with can be very frustrating.

I am sure some others will make similar choices to mine, but what I see most doing is just giving up.

I think verant seriously needs to look at things and realize that there is a difference between admiring people in a guild like FoH for their gaming skills, and the gear their toons wear, and saying I can get that stuff too, just gonna take me a little longer, and being totally discouraged because you just don't see a way to get to that level of game play. Basically, the carrot needs to be just out of reach. What Sony has done with PoP is remove the carrot from reach, and this is bad because the point of any game is to win. If you have no chance to win, why bother?

Lhon · 01-08-2003, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gargazon

I think verant seriously needs to look at things and realize that there is a difference between admiring people in a guild like FoH for their gaming skills, and the gear their toons wear, and saying I can get that stuff too, just gonna take me a little longer, and being totally discouraged because you just don't see a way to get to that level of game play. Basically, the carrot needs to be just out of reach. What Sony has done with PoP is remove the carrot from reach, and this is bad because the point of any game is to win. If you have no chance to win, why bother?

What has changed from previous expansions? Why is it out of reach, the flag mobs are too hard? Remember when Tunare was considered invincible? Now there are probably upwards of 1000 players per server in Tunare capable guilds. Same thing with the Emperor, now some servers have 500 people in VT, and rising.

Rallos may seem hard now, and out of reach, but next year at this time there will be 5-10 guilds killing him on most servers. If anything PoP has put the carrot more within reach because levelling is so much easier. No longer is 65+100AAs unthinkable for the 10 hour per week player.

miir · 01-08-2003, 06:22 AM

What Sony has done with PoP is remove the carrot from reach

What a load of horseshit.
POP content is easily available for casual players like myself.

A few months after Kunark came out, people were pissing that Veeshans Peak, Trakanon and even the Charcock Royas were out of reach for the 'non-hardcore.

Same goes with Tunare, Yelinak, NTOV, AOW and Dain with Velious.

FanBuss · 01-08-2003, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Any business that fails to address it's demographic will ultimately fail. The Devs at SOE have zero business sense

Cause god knows Everquest has failed. 4 Years running, 400k paying subscriber base, sell out Expansions? Please.

You sound like a pathetic "I hate SoE" fan-boy that knows jack all about what theyre talking about. People have been saying shit like that since the beginning, yet EQ keeps steamrolling along. Anytime someone like you makes that bullshit claim, they always have to throw in a word like "ulitimately" or "Eventually" just to make their argument seem to have merit, so you can just point to that word and say "I said it will fail in time" or something. Get the fuck outta here.

Rthen · 01-08-2003, 07:24 AM

"Rallos may seem hard now, and out of reach, but next year at this time there will be 5-10 guilds killing him on most servers. If anything PoP has put the carrot more within reach because levelling is so much easier. No longer is 65+100AAs unthinkable for the 10 hour per week player."

Depends what class.. around 5 classes will end up dying out at level 65, maybe not completely but the numbers will decrease further. They cannot solo and are not heavily desired in exp groups.

Magicians
Palidians
Necromancers
Beastlords
Shadowknights

If you play one fo the above classes you should be concerned. Your effective soloing days are over at level 65. You will not progress easily though AA skills unless your in a larger guild and can bring your own groups to the zones you can get exp in. Groups will not seek you out over core classes.

As it is now my AA exping is slow.. I can earn 2 a day if I get a group but I could go a week without getting a group.

Grymbok · 01-08-2003, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rthen
Groups will not seek you out over core classes.

Groups may not seek you out over core classes, but my experience has tended to be that the people who insist on having a Warrior are still sitting at the zone while I'm off getting XP with a PAL or SK tanking for my group. Maybe my pulls aren't quite as frequent as theirs, but if I get to start pulling two hours earlier I'm happy.

Similarly, Mages, Necros and BSTs all put out respectable DPS. A 65 BST with a full spellbook will even make a good slower for an XP group, which again means less time spent shouting for a Shaman or Chanter.

Maybe my "sub par" groups wouldn't cut it in Tier 3 or 4, but the kind of casual gamer you're talking about is unlikely to be in those tiers anyway.

Schezanna · 01-08-2003, 07:58 AM

You're a moron. You do realize that most classes can't solo effectively past 61, right? And that melee classes can't solo at all?

The only thing POP does to casual folks is make them group more. Hardly death going on there. Death of soloing? Well, that's expendable to begin with.

Clericnon2boxed · 01-08-2003, 08:30 AM

Dont you wonder why so many PoPexp mobs do not summon ?
Mobs made for druids, wizards, necros, shamans and bards.

Eisai · 01-08-2003, 08:43 AM

yadda yadda yadda

Quote:

PoP = The Death of the casual/semi-casual player

its about time, been trying to kill them off one by one myself for 2 years. Cant stand people that.. bah, forget the rest. just cant stand people..

Steeltael · 01-08-2003, 08:47 AM

What all this boils down to is a jealous person unable to cope with not having everything people who work harder have,

Its like a little boy who made himself a sandcastle for his G.I. Joes and another little boy throwing rocks at it because he doesnt like seeing someone have something he can't have

such retarded comments about casuals and powergamers paying the same..I'm willing to bet you'd just LOVE to see powergamers pay out the ass Guess what? we already pay by having to deal with whining children like you

miir · 01-08-2003, 09:01 AM

around 5 classes will end up dying out at level 65, maybe not completely but the numbers will decrease further. They cannot solo and are not heavily desired in exp groups.

Magicians
Palidians
Necromancers
Beastlords
Shadowknights

What the hell are you talking about?

Magicians and Necros can solo just fine, even at 65.
Both have respectable DPS for XP groups.
Paladins and Shadowknights are probably better MT than Warriors for XP groups.
Breastlords have decent DPS, can slow and have some pretty tight buffs. I can't see why they wouldn't be desired in a XP group.

As it is now my AA exping is slow.. I can earn 2 a day if I get a group but I could go a week without getting a group.

Maybe people just don't like grouping with your whiney little bitch ass.

Eisai · 01-08-2003, 09:13 AM

what miir said..

How do you even know what PoP group make-up looks like if you only get a group once a month?
Are you mad because they released a "uber exclusive expansion" and you a non-uber as it would be cannot see it's content? Uhh.. wait for the next 1-65(70) expansion. Duh..
So when do you stop complainning? Do we need a warning sticker on the package that says its for power gamers only? I think that's actually how it was marketed.. PoP for casual gamers=free ports and easy tradeskills. You spent 20$ on a game without even knowing what the fuck it was first? read a review or something first..

Rthen · 01-08-2003, 09:24 AM

"What the hell are you talking about?"

Class balance and game progression for the most part. Both of which have been fucked up since PoP.

"Magicians and Necros can solo just fine, even at 65."

Necros can solo fairly well from what I can see. I have a level 61 necro as well as a level 65 mage. I leveled both myself from level 1. Snare is powerful still, even in PoP. Necros do not however have the ability to out-solo Druids or Wizards in PoP. This is a significant class balance issue since necromancers are not nearly as group desired.

As for mages.. well I play my mage as my main character and he is unable to solo effectively at level 65. No Snare, Root, or Slow = unable to solo in PoS or PoV. It means exp progresison solo is not going to happen. If I had the level 65 charm spell I might be doing well enough in BoT however I do not have it yet. That is one spell and one zone however.

"Both have respectable DPS for XP groups."

I never said they did not. I just happen to see a lot of mages LFG these days. Also a lot of pal's, Sk's, Necros, and BLs.

"Paladins and Shadowknights are probably better MT than Warriors for XP groups."

In some cases I agree.. but I never said they were not good tanks.

"Breastlords have decent DPS, can slow and have some pretty tight buffs. I can't see why they wouldn't be desired in a XP group."

I agree.

"As it is now my AA exping is slow.. I can earn 2 a day if I get a group but I could go a week without getting a group.

Maybe people just don't like grouping with your whiney little bitch ass."

I'm no ones "bitch". I think you need to take a class in reading comprehension. You obviously read nothing of what I said and made incorrect claims as to what I actually was saying.

miir · 01-08-2003, 09:34 AM

Necros can solo fairly well from what I can see

They cannot solo and are not heavily desired in exp groups...........Necromancers

Can they or can they not solo?
Make up your fucking mind.

I think you need to take a class in reading comprehension. You obviously read nothing of what I said and made incorrect claims as to what I actually was saying

I think you need to stop contradicting yourself.
And you also need to pull your head out of your ass.
These same whines were made with every expansion. People pissed and moaned that Velious was going to be the death of EQ because it had no newbie content. They said all the casual players were going to quit because 'Verant' was catering to uber guilds and only adding high end content.

What the fuck?
Your only real complaint seems to be that you can't solo in POP and get the same XP as groups.

Well tough luck. This is a multi player game that is based around grouping.

I have a level 61 necro as well as a level 65 mage. I leveled both myself from level 1

Who the fuck cares?

01-07-2003, 10:59 PM	#16 (permalink)
Samus Aran Sons of the Storm Heal Bitch Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 773 -1 Internets	hrm

01-08-2003, 07:24 AM	#21 (permalink)
Rthen Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NY Posts: 43 -1 Internets	"Rallos may seem hard now, and out of reach, but next year at this time there will be 5-10 guilds killing him on most servers. If anything PoP has put the carrot more within reach because levelling is so much easier. No longer is 65+100AAs unthinkable for the 10 hour per week player." Depends what class.. around 5 classes will end up dying out at level 65, maybe not completely but the numbers will decrease further. They cannot solo and are not heavily desired in exp groups. Magicians Palidians Necromancers Beastlords Shadowknights If you play one fo the above classes you should be concerned. Your effective soloing days are over at level 65. You will not progress easily though AA skills unless your in a larger guild and can bring your own groups to the zones you can get exp in. Groups will not seek you out over core classes. As it is now my AA exping is slow.. I can earn 2 a day if I get a group but I could go a week without getting a group. __________________ Sage Rthen Majere Arch Convoker Master of the Orb

01-08-2003, 08:47 AM	#26 (permalink)
Steeltael Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 4 -1 Internets	The Boil Down What all this boils down to is a jealous person unable to cope with not having everything people who work harder have, Its like a little boy who made himself a sandcastle for his G.I. Joes and another little boy throwing rocks at it because he doesnt like seeing someone have something he can't have such retarded comments about casuals and powergamers paying the same..I'm willing to bet you'd just LOVE to see powergamers pay out the ass Guess what? we already pay by having to deal with whining children like you

01-08-2003, 09:24 AM	#29 (permalink)
Rthen Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NY Posts: 43 -1 Internets	"What the hell are you talking about?" Class balance and game progression for the most part. Both of which have been fucked up since PoP. "Magicians and Necros can solo just fine, even at 65." Necros can solo fairly well from what I can see. I have a level 61 necro as well as a level 65 mage. I leveled both myself from level 1. Snare is powerful still, even in PoP. Necros do not however have the ability to out-solo Druids or Wizards in PoP. This is a significant class balance issue since necromancers are not nearly as group desired. As for mages.. well I play my mage as my main character and he is unable to solo effectively at level 65. No Snare, Root, or Slow = unable to solo in PoS or PoV. It means exp progresison solo is not going to happen. If I had the level 65 charm spell I might be doing well enough in BoT however I do not have it yet. That is one spell and one zone however. "Both have respectable DPS for XP groups." I never said they did not. I just happen to see a lot of mages LFG these days. Also a lot of pal's, Sk's, Necros, and BLs. "Paladins and Shadowknights are probably better MT than Warriors for XP groups." In some cases I agree.. but I never said they were not good tanks. "Breastlords have decent DPS, can slow and have some pretty tight buffs. I can't see why they wouldn't be desired in a XP group." I agree. "As it is now my AA exping is slow.. I can earn 2 a day if I get a group but I could go a week without getting a group. Maybe people just don't like grouping with your whiney little bitch ass." I'm no ones "bitch". I think you need to take a class in reading comprehension. You obviously read nothing of what I said and made incorrect claims as to what I actually was saying. __________________ Sage Rthen Majere Arch Convoker Master of the Orb

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01-07-2003, 11:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
Gargazon Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 30 -1 Internets	I think that this post does have one element of truth to it. It is the death of the casual gamer...but not most casual gamers. The crowd that will most likely quit are the level 60ish HoT geared types. Now I could be wrong but... The way I see things is like this. Since EQ came out I have always been the guy in the guilds that don't quite hit uber status. The two exceptions to this were a guild where all the people with the best gear left and I hadn't been in it long enough to be in that crowd, and recently my guild split with about 1/2 going to one of the 2 top guilds and the other half going to the other. I quickly found out though that I didn't have the AA or the gear to play the same game as the guild I was apping. So I left so because frankly, I needed to level up and get a lot more AA before I could really be an effective tank for them. The whole time I have played EQ I have been one step behind, with the uber status just out of my reach. Not anymore. I don't see a way for me to be able to reach the same status as those in the top guilds on my server. PoP completely changed the game, for many reasons. Some good, some not so good. I am not the only one in this situation, many of my friends in similar situations have already left, and I have more who are talking about leaving. It is pretty discouraging for the players who have done most of the stuff in the game before PoP, but now have no real chance to access most of the content of the new expansion. What did I do about it? I stayed unguilded for over a month while I decided what I wanted to do, and finally recently joined a guild with a more casual playing style. I am definately having to make some adjustments because I am used to raiding pretty much every day, but the trade off is a much more relaxed game for me. I also have the benefit that most of the people I play with now I can actually get to know, instead of getting bits and pieces over raid chat. Not knowing most of the people you associate with can be very frustrating. I am sure some others will make similar choices to mine, but what I see most doing is just giving up. I think verant seriously needs to look at things and realize that there is a difference between admiring people in a guild like FoH for their gaming skills, and the gear their toons wear, and saying I can get that stuff too, just gonna take me a little longer, and being totally discouraged because you just don't see a way to get to that level of game play. Basically, the carrot needs to be just out of reach. What Sony has done with PoP is remove the carrot from reach, and this is bad because the point of any game is to win. If you have no chance to win, why bother?

01-08-2003, 06:22 AM	#19 (permalink)
miir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 57 -1 Internets	*What Sony has done with PoP is remove the carrot from reach* What a load of horseshit. POP content is easily available for casual players like myself. A few months after Kunark came out, people were pissing that Veeshans Peak, Trakanon and even the Charcock Royas were out of reach for the 'non-hardcore. Same goes with Tunare, Yelinak, NTOV, AOW and Dain with Velious.

01-08-2003, 07:58 AM	#23 (permalink)
Schezanna Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 269	You're a moron. You do realize that most classes can't solo effectively past 61, right? And that melee classes can't solo at all? The only thing POP does to casual folks is make them group more. Hardly death going on there. Death of soloing? Well, that's expendable to begin with.

01-08-2003, 08:30 AM	#24 (permalink)
Clericnon2boxed Up Syndrome Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Bärlin Posts: 1,334 -1 Internets	Dont you wonder why so many PoPexp mobs do not summon ? Mobs made for druids, wizards, necros, shamans and bards.

01-08-2003, 09:01 AM	#27 (permalink)
miir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 57 -1 Internets	around 5 classes will end up dying out at level 65, maybe not completely but the numbers will decrease further. They cannot solo and are not heavily desired in exp groups. Magicians Palidians Necromancers Beastlords Shadowknights What the hell are you talking about? Magicians and Necros can solo just fine, even at 65. Both have respectable DPS for XP groups. Paladins and Shadowknights are probably better MT than Warriors for XP groups. Breastlords have decent DPS, can slow and have some pretty tight buffs. I can't see why they wouldn't be desired in a XP group. *As it is now my AA exping is slow.. I can earn 2 a day if I get a group but I could go a week without getting a group.* Maybe people just don't like grouping with your whiney little bitch ass.

01-08-2003, 09:34 AM	#30 (permalink)
miir Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 57 -1 Internets	*Necros can solo fairly well from what I can see* They cannot solo and are not heavily desired in exp groups...........Necromancers Can they or can they not solo? Make up your fucking mind. *I think you need to take a class in reading comprehension. You obviously read nothing of what I said and made incorrect claims as to what I actually was saying* I think you need to stop contradicting yourself. And you also need to pull your head out of your ass. These same whines were made with every expansion. People pissed and moaned that Velious was going to be the death of EQ because it had no newbie content. They said all the casual players were going to quit because 'Verant' was catering to uber guilds and only adding high end content. What the fuck? Your only real complaint seems to be that you can't solo in POP and get the same XP as groups. Well tough luck. This is a multi player game that is based around grouping. *I have a level 61 necro as well as a level 65 mage. I leveled both myself from level 1* Who the fuck cares?