Enough is Enough, bard mana Needs to be nerfed NOW!

[gn0me]

What would you bards rather be doing? Meleeing? lololololol

[Destinae]

A bard in an uber guild is almost always gonna be setup to perform one role...Why is this a problem now?

If you aren't twisting mana pulses and chorus you'll be twisting rizlona's and warsong...and if not that you'll be twisting psalm/niv's/guardian rhythms (hell you'd probably always be playing ac songs if it was more common knowledge how ac worked.). In most PoP encounters mana isn't even a problem for clerics...so you're left with mana/rizlona's if you're grouped with 5 wizards or haste/rizlona's if you're grouped with 5 melee.

Saying it's unbalanced that a lvl 32 song is more useful than a lvl64 song is flawed logic, chorus/wind of marr aren't upgrades to your pulse song, that song is meant to scale as you level/obtain better instrument mods and it doesn't negate the effectiveness of the mana/tick versions in the least. If anything this just makes bards another class that you can never get enough of, it only takes one bard to play chorus of marr for a constant 20mana/tick, while every single other bard stacks in usefulness being able to do a myriad of things to enhance the abilities of other classes.

[FurryCrew]

You want us bard to get nurfed.....as if we aren't broken/stealth nurfed enough....

If i had anything to do with it i'd have u excumunicated from the bard class

[Wrexen]

If this amazing strategy makes a guild so all-powa, why isn't it being used like Mod Rod3 was? Oh, that's right, there's a ridiculously short supply of bards at high level because they're tired of being broken and nerfed accidentaly every patch. Great idea.

Speaking as a 65 bard with SM1 and VotS -- I don't really care how much mana it gives. Necros in my guild don't have to feed, relegating bards to the same role is just as lame. For some fights I've done 32 mana, but it was because it was really needed, and we would have won anyway. It's not in the front of my spellbook.

Save the nerfs for things that really need it - Rod3 was a poor role for mages anyway, and high-level encounters were too dependent on it.

[Loftish]

Bards everywhere just got pwned

[Physics Theory]

Loftish makes me wish I was a moderator.

[Samus Aran]

Repeatedly twisting mana song produces phantom mana, not real mana... go to The Concert Hall and read some threads/parses.

Oh, and eat a steaming bowl of dick.

[Gevarien~SolRo]

What the hell are you talking about?

Even if we assume that 32 mana would produce the non-phantom amount of mana you give, what as grandbean said parses indicate to be false, this whole post would still make zero sense.

First off, even under this assumption, the most effective twist for a 6 man group is not constantly playing that one song 32-32-32-32, it is: Activate Voice / Cloak, Amp, Marr, 32, 32, 32, Marr, Amp, 32, 32, etc.

32 Mana beeing better than 61+ Winds / Chorus? No dice. 27 mana per pulse vs 63 mana per pulse. See, the difference is, you need to constantly keep pulsing 32 Chorus while one pulse of Marr will last for 3 ticks. Playing Marr over 32 will also allow you to twist 2-3(depending on your con, video lag, etc) other songs in addition to it, if you want to compare a constant pulsing of 32 to anything you have to compare it to what you usually twist. It's not amp-32 Mana vs Marr, the correct comparison is 32 Mana-amp vs say Marr + Riz + Warsong + Psalm.

32 Mana has exactly one use, to allow us to focus on producing mana for short periods of time if mana is needed above everything else, for example if your only slower just died and you need to pump him for a reslow, or if two of your clerics ate a drain-AE and need to regen fast to keep the rot going. Using it actually drops your total direct damage + indirect damage (atk, foci, haste, DS) + healing + mana produced for reasons stated above, it is only effective when the value of mana over anything else is way above what it usually is.

5 Bards grouped with a Cleric dedicated to the sole task of giving him Mana can generate a metric fuckton of it? Well no shit Sherlock, try dedicating 5 Necros to a single cleric, he'll burst sooner or later. Why is this not overpowered? Because no guild has 5 Necros for each cleric, same with Bards. Or you could just replace those 5 mana machines with clerics and get better results.

[artebus]

As has been posted, all past tests of Cassindra's Chorus of Clarity indicate that singing it twice in one tick (every three seconds) is no more effective than singing it once a tick. Any apparent increase is phantom mana. I don't believe anyone has done a test since Luclin, so I suppose it's possible it's now changed, but I would expect it hasn't. Does anyone have concrete evidence that it works twice a tick? If so, then it should be changed back to the way it used to be, so that it only works once a tick.

It is possible that the higher possible singing mods and Ayonae's Tutelage do make that song more powerful than originally intended, but I don't think it's too far gone. If it was deemed too powerful, though, and large guilds were doing nothing but sticking bards in mana puming positions, making CCoC immune to song mods would be a reasonable change, although lamentable. (It's nice to be able to use it to help your group out of a bind.)

I don't think giving it an icon is a great solution. There were some legitimate uses of it for old world dragons (for example, reducing downtime for rezzing or buffing, in the days before cleric epics) which are still legitimate and important for younger guilds. Giving it an icon would make it better in some ways, worse in others. Basically, I would say that if it's not overpowered when a single bard sings it, it's not overpowered when two sing it in the same group, and vice versa. Would you say that the second and third wizards in a single group should not be able to use the same nukes? Or that the second and third clerics shouldn't be able to use the same heals?

I agree with your sentiment, that a single song should not be so powerful as to reduce the class to using only it (this is basically the rationale behind the mod rod change: mages shouldn't just be mod rod summoners), but I'm not sure that this song qualifies, since by no means do I sing only this song. Of course, I play in a different environment (small guild, single bard in guild), so it's tough to say if it's balanced across the board.

[Findail]

Just to make sure you know how stupid you are I will repeat what the other bards have said here. Twisting the 32 song does not produce real mana the extra pulse produces phantom mana.So omfg with aa skills and key items you get to 27 mana a tick for only your group and in a small ass range.(Note using your numbers here im too lazy to figure out if its really 27.)

While with max modfiers the ae Chorus of Marr gives 22 mana a tick regens over 50 hp a tick and keeps stamina up. Clearly the ae version is the better song due to the regen effecting more than 6 fucking people and not taking up more than 1 of your twist slots.

In the future get some god damn facts before saying the sky is falling. You only make yourself look stupid. That is all. You may now apologize for wasting everyones time.

Maestro Findail Victorinox Heaven and Earth www.hneguild.com

[Findail]

Fucking double posts.

[FurryCrew]

Sooo.....can we excumunicate him from the class yet....i say the dr00ds can have him

[Grae]

(hell you'd probably always be playing ac songs if it was more common knowledge how ac worked.).

For the ignorant... Enlighten?

[aubrynmls]

This was tested a while ago on the bard boards, it had all the charts and such to show the data. Because it doesn't generate a buff icon and is pulse based it tends to generate a lot of phantom mana client side that isn't really there. This has lead to some confusion as to how much actual mana is generated. Thanks for the un-informed post though was amusing.

[Grimmlokk]

AC up to...1800?...has a significant effect on melee damage taken now.