What Mistakes DiD WoW Make - or Didn't They ?

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Arbitrary

And what if you were an iksar and couldn't wear anything with a plate graphic?

YOU WERE FUCKED, THAT'S WHAT.

Jaundiced Bone Bracer my fucking ass.

WoW's biggest mistake was not sending Furor and Tigole back in time so they could Wyld Stallions up EQ into a better game. With iksar plate.

it's not like they didn't tell them that in advance.

Besides, uggo races don't have enough detriments these days. Can't even play D&D these days without half your group being half orc, half ogre or whatever. Roleplaying a dumb brute is not funny to the rest of us.

[Izuldan]

WoW obviously isn't a failure in the sense of a business model, but it leaves a lot to desire as a MMO. Specifically the first "M" - Massively.

When it boils down to it, WoW is like a glorified game lobby. I log in, I play with my 20-30 guildies, I kill shit, I log off. I couldn't give a crap about the other people on my server....Alliance or Horde side (I'm Horde). The Alliance side I rarely run into in any meanginful fashion, and world PvP is a joke. The Horde side I don't really need to interact with outside of my guild, except for the occasional PUG, and that experience is invariably worse than the experience I would have with guildies, so I try and avoid it as much as possible.

So there is no large group interaction, ever. The closest would be something like Wintergrasp, but that's not even the same since they changed it with 3.2. I'm not sure what the closest thing to "massively" is in WoW, maybe the early days of world PvP, or opening of AQ.

The Auction House removes any personal interaction....you don't need to barter or trade like the old WC tunnel days, you just put your stuff up on auction, log on the next day and collect your gold. I rarely ever advertise in trade channel, and even more rarely do I ever seek the services of someone advertising. It's way too easy these days to get something enchanted/cut/made by a guildie than to need the services of a third party....so once again, no need to interact with anyone outside your close circle. Same goes for instances. A lot is given up and sacrificed for the sake of convenience.

I realize it's a difficult thing to accomplish, the sense of a living breathing world with a large degree of interactiveness, but WoW did miss the mark on this one. I feel if anyone ever is going to usurp WoW, it will have to do a better job on this front.

[Lyenae]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

Besides, uggo races don't have enough detriments these days. Can't even play D&D these days without half your group being half orc, half ogre or whatever. Roleplaying a dumb brute is not funny to the rest of us.

That's nothing new to tabletop. There were always losers who thought exotic race = my char is cool, i want to be diff cuz im emo, i want stat boosts with no negatives, or i don't have to roleplay cuz im "exotic." There will always be losers like that in tabletop or in MMO's.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Izuldan

WoW obviously isn't a failure in the sense of a business model, but it leaves a lot to desire as a MMO. Specifically the first "M" - Massively.

So uh...pug more and use trade and general chat channels? What exactly are you complaining about?

Or are you one of thoose dumbasses that complain about the lack of socialization in WoW and then will go and whine about shitty pugs and barrens chat. Who the fuck do you think you'd have to socialize with if the game forced you to start interacting with more people.

It's like some of you don't even think.

I mean complaining about the Auction House? Really? I mean fucking really?

If you miss it that goddamn much use trade channel. I've made a killing in trade auctioning off services. Besides, I'm not exactly sure what you miss out on here. The spam in OOC when you entered your severs specific trade zone? Or was it that amazing interaction with the person you traded with.

"How much?"
"400 plat."
"Okay brt."
"thx"

Goddamn. How can we live without it?

Fuck.

[Itzena]

Arenas. Fuck Arenas, pathetic wannabe-esport bollocks that has fucked over class balance in both PvE and battleground PvP. Seriously, the 3v3 thing is a step in the right direction but if there absolutely must be arena seasons, change it to 5v5 only for points.

[Pyros]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Arenas. Fuck Arenas, pathetic wannabe-esport bollocks that has fucked over class balance in both PvE and battleground PvP. Seriously, the 3v3 thing is a step in the right direction but if there absolutely must be arena seasons, change it to 5v5 only for points.

Arenas are fine, but if you're gonna have all your meaningfull pvp instanced, then you might as well as a different ruleset. They could probably fix most pvp AND pve balance issues if they just said fuck it. Leave the battleground/world pvp with the same rules as pve and balance arena in particular. It's stupid they're still trying to promote e-sport bullshit when they can't balance arenas because that'd break raiding or low level shit.

[Cryptin]

Lack of GM based events or better world events. I was expecting something spectacular for the release of Lich King prior or on it's release date. Nothing at all. Only thing I can remember that was remotely fun was the opening of AQ gates. Fuck the undead infesting the major cities. Shit was annoying. At least EQ had GM events.

[Froofy-D]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

I have not edited my post and Zangarmarsh starts at 3rd. The only reason I didnt pick hellfire stuff was because it was mostly paladin plate anyways.

I have not edited my post, I have merely added content.

The fact remains that first Planar armor outlasted Kunark completly. An entire expansion. And you had to raid in the following expansion to get upgrades. There's nothing revisionist about that, that's fact.

And I gotta agree with James, there must have been something seriously wrong with the way you played that you couldn't hold agro anymore because you didn't generate enough ouch-rage. I had no problem whatsoever holding agro in Hellfire with Full T3, the mobs barely touched me.

Ehh I think you are mistaken on this. I clearly remember a week into Kunark, stepping into Karnors at 51-52, and getting upgrades to Fear/Hate gear. You could get everything but the BP/Legs in single group content and well before 60. If you'll remember all the Kunark sets had clicky effects too, some of which were really good at the time. I think items lasted a lot longer in EQ due to all items being rarer in general, despite many being tradeable.

[Genjiro]

Originally Posted by Froofy-D

Ehh I think you are mistaken on this. I clearly remember a week into Kunark, stepping into Karnors at 51-52, and getting upgrades to Fear/Hate gear. You could get everything but the BP/Legs in single group content and well before 60. If you'll remember all the Kunark sets had clicky effects too, some of which were really good at the time. I think items lasted a lot longer in EQ due to all items being rarer in general, despite many being tradeable.

Totally depended on your class.

[Uncle Duke]

Originally Posted by Pyros

Arenas are fine, but if you're gonna have all your meaningfull pvp instanced, then you might as well as a different ruleset. They could probably fix most pvp AND pve balance issues if they just said fuck it. Leave the battleground/world pvp with the same rules as pve and balance arena in particular. It's stupid they're still trying to promote e-sport bullshit when they can't balance arenas because that'd break raiding or low level shit.

Part of this is due to the whole theorycraft shit regarding how stat mechanics work.

That said, you are absolutely right in this regard. Arena should've been moved over to its own ruleset away from the rest of the game. This also means all that hot-shit Arena PvP gear could only be used in an Arena setting. Blue could whore the Arena ruleset out as "professional competition" with all the merchandising/licensing profits that comes with it without affecting the larger game as a whole.

Instead, the game as a whole - if it wasn't already fucked up - is even more FUBAR'ed due to the whole "balance" issue of Arenas sharing the same ruleset as everyone else.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Genjiro

Totally depended on your class.

Right. You basically fell into one of three categories in Kunark. Either you got new loot in KC, loot didn't matter for your class so it was a wash or they just flat out didn't bother making loot for your class at all.

It would be like if in WoW they made new plate gear in the expansion, didn't bother making any mail/leather items and all cloth gear was exactly the same.

Or they could do it even better and allow mages to summon focus items and completely invalidate all caster loot prior. How's that for itemization. "Yeah, raid loot from the previous 3 expansions is nice and all, but here, let's let a player summon loot that's better then everything else in the game."

[Tide]

gold farmers. For awhile there was a crazy number of them.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Froofy-D

Ehh I think you are mistaken on this. I clearly remember a week into Kunark, stepping into Karnors at 51-52, and getting upgrades to Fear/Hate gear. You could get everything but the BP/Legs in single group content and well before 60. If you'll remember all the Kunark sets had clicky effects too, some of which were really good at the time. I think items lasted a lot longer in EQ due to all items being rarer in general, despite many being tradeable.

you wore cobalt over indicolite, you need to be slapped silly.

you say "clicky effects too" as if they had anything besides that. I know DoD vambraces were the fucking shit to have, but for the most part, that gear just sucked. There's no way you'd use the Cobalt Gauntlets with some minor Str buff over the +5dex +5sta +50hp indicolite Gauntlets.

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Or they could do it even better and allow mages to summon focus items and completely invalidate all caster loot prior. How's that for itemization. "Yeah, raid loot from the previous 3 expansions is nice and all, but here, let's let a player summon loot that's better then everything else in the game."

IIRC that was just a temporary live-test and they put Focus effects on items of various levels shortly after.

Just imagine Blizzard going through their old loot tables. Sadly I don't see that happening. I mean, they might as well throw epics at us in SFK and Deadmines. I think it's actually harder to do these dungeons at the appropriate level than running heroics, which just requires you to keep trying, eventually it will work.

[Bongk]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

you wore cobalt over indicolite, you need to be slapped silly.

you say "clicky effects too" as if they had anything besides that. I know DoD vambraces were the fucking shit to have, but for the most part, that gear just sucked. There's no way you'd use the Cobalt Gauntlets with some minor Str buff over the +5dex +5sta +50hp indicolite Gauntlets.

And that was about the only piece worth wearing. Way to pick the only decent one.

Indicolite Breastplate
MAGIC ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: CHEST
AC: 35
STR: +15 DEX: +15 STA: +15

Cobalt Breastplate
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM
Slot: CHEST
Charges: Unlimited
AC: 45
STR: +12 DEX: +12 STA: +12 HP: +50
Effect: Invigorate

see I can also link one item better.

I will admit the boots were nice for resists though which were hard back than, great for Trakanon.

[Quineloe]

BP came off Trak, since when is that group stuff?
Legs from VS

rest did not have stats. Only other piece you would wear over indicolite would be the helmet because of the ridiculous stats on it. If you for some reason didnt wear SSB. But all the other items had stats on them that made them worth wearing over Cobalt.