Next Everquest installment: Everquest "Next".

[ArkturusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Goliath

But, did you watch HIS VIDEOS!? Clearly his videos prove there is more control in WoW than in EQ.

WoW HAS shown more "control" than EQ. Here are a few more creative examples shown by players.

1.) Not only can you kite bosses across different "zones", but you can have them wipe out a city...Kazzak in Stormwind for example.

2.) Paladins exploiting Reckoning back in the day to one-shot said boss.

3.) Warlock pets + Baron Geddon bomb = AH fun.

4.) Finally, the unintentional plague. Name me one thing in EQ that comes anywhere near the freedom of gameplay this gem showed. A boss, Hakkar, in an instance has one little ability exploited to eventually have it spread like a virtual plague to most cities and towns across the gameworld. Blizzard had to reset the infected servers to get rid of it.

Being able to kite a fucking mob without worrying about leashing pales in magnitude.

[Sanadebe]

Thats all the examples you've got though. I don't disagree they were certainly novelties, but are you able to name a dozen more? Cause I bet you any eq player worth his salt could.

[Ferr]

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

stuff

Of those, how many remained more than a few days after they were discovered?

Theres a huge difference between freedom and control and broken bugged unintended content.

EQ players develop unique ways to handle things, cheers for them.

Wow players develop unique ways to handle things, they get 72hour bans and a patch.

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

Instancing isnt a step backwards. Its a logical solution to the problem of limited resources, and its clear the vast majority prefer this solution over non-instanced dungeons like EQ.

Saying WoW doesnt advance the genre in significant ways is just a joke. No one takes you seriously (except maybe Goliath) when you say things like this. Just look at Phasing for gods sake. A wonderful idea that I hope all MMO's continue to develop and use more in the future. The progress isnt going to go from zero to VR in one generation of gaming. These games require huge amounts of resources, both in terms of financial and human.

Maybe someday developers will have computers and tools powerful enough to create a volume AND quality of content that will still provide each player to have something fun to do without using instancing to accomplish it, but its not feasible today.

it's logical, but it's not a solution; it's a regression. their 'solution' removed the main benefit from the very thing that brought the problem in the first place. that's not a solution to anything. it's called massively multiplayer online gaming. the whole point of this genre and the possibilities it (used to) provides are the very things their 'solution' removed. lemme say again, that's not a solution. it's using horses and wagons to solve the energy crisis.

of course it's feasible to make that type of game; it was already made over 10 years ago. that type of gameplay lies in the dynamic nature of players, their decisions, and the impacts of those decisions; leverage those in your gameplay, and you have the chance to advance the industry. not adding a new discretely controlled 25 man instance.

don't like dynamic gameplay, being influenced by other players, or required social interaction? there are plenty of single and limited multiplayer games (and wow) for you.

[Qhue]

Phasing is indeed a very cool concept. It was used in still quite limited ways in Lich King and I hope that other games manage to get pretty creative with how they make use of the technology from here out. Phasing combined with the Public Quest could really make for some exceptional dynamic content.

[Ryoz]

Originally Posted by Goliath

where I made a couple thousand dollars farming

Hopefully it was enough to remove the insurmountable amount of sand from your vagina.

[Kreugen]

And Goliath's personal crusade to send this thread to the rickshaw keeps on rolling.

There really isn't shit to say about the topic anyway, other than "oh neat, how about some details?"

[Heavens_Myst]

Originally Posted by Kreugen

And Goliath's personal crusade to send this thread to the rickshaw keeps on rolling.

There really isn't shit to say about the topic anyway, other than "oh neat, how about some details?"

uhh but he made thousssands of dollars on some server, what do you know anyway!!

Goliath go back to your eq server, do your afk merc killing, skip the part where you come to the FOH forums to brag about doing it for those elite AA's on some server no one gives a fuck, turn off your intranet, and never return.

[EmiliaEQ]

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

Instancing isnt a step backwards... Its a logical solution to the problem of limited resources

There is a reason EVERYONE wanted to do Sebilis/Guk (great loot, low risk, low effort) and Droga was deserted.
I'm not totally against instancing but i would rather avoid it (cheap & easy way out & kills creativity).

Dire Maul is an example of a dungeon that could had been made "bigger" and had room for 5-6 groups if you add repop.

2-3 good 6-7 group dungeons every 10 level should be enough.
Specially if you add "improving epics" and "harvesting/crafting".



However i really liked AoC's single starting zone (at least the concept)
You don't have to design 8 cities, with 8 newbie quest lines, and 24 dungeons until lvl20.

[Hatorade]

You tell him Heavens Myst.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Oh my, Dumar and Golliath both in one thread. It's like Christmas came early. We need to unban Utnayan so he'll come back and say that if Dumar believes it's so fucking easy to solve all these problems he should stop whining about and fucking do it, to which Dumar will say "It's already be done why should I do it again?" like some kind of fucked up prophecy.

Then we can get Makata who even though we're not even talking about PvP will find some way to whine about the incoming rogue nerfs in PvP and how it totally gimps him and is completely undeserved because a spammable instant cast AE 3 second interupt, mortal strike and cripple totally ins't overpowered (even though they're nerfing shaman totems to no longer pulse rogues out of stealth).

Goliath will respond saying that EQ's pvp had the most control ever because you could charm people and drown them and that it's not the same as charming people in WoW and throwing them off cliffs, totally different! Of course then Mippo will show up and say how he was the world first to ever charm and drown someone in any game ever and we are all ants before him.

We'll leave the thread alone for a couple days only to come back to find some scene from Mad Max going on with Dumar as a big dumb giant and Utnayan energetically humping his head as Master Blaster and Golliath as Tina Turner shouting, "EQ RUN BARTER TOWN"

[ArkturusMaximus]

Originally Posted by Dumar

it's logical, but it's not a solution; it's a regression. their 'solution' removed the main benefit from the very thing that brought the problem in the first place. that's not a solution to anything. it's called massively multiplayer online gaming. the whole point of this genre and the possibilities it (used to) provides are the very things their 'solution' removed. lemme say again, that's not a solution. it's using horses and wagons to solve the energy crisis.

of course it's feasible to make that type of game; it was already made over 10 years ago. that type of gameplay lies in the dynamic nature of players, their decisions, and the impacts of those decisions; leverage those in your gameplay, and you have the chance to advance the industry. not adding a new discretely controlled 25 man instance.

don't like dynamic gameplay, being influenced by other players, or required social interaction? there are plenty of single and limited multiplayer games (and wow) for you.

WoW doesnt take the "massively" out of MMO, it partitions it in a different manner. In EQ a relative few could keep the masses from experiencing content. How was that "dynamic"? How was that "massively" multiplayer? The only reason it worked for EQ was due to the small number of capable raiding guilds that existed relative to the amount of content available. Look at the progression charts on some of the largest WoW servers and imagine them trying to fight over the same content.

I guarantee you that WoW dungeons have had higher, massive, populations in them than any EQ dungeon ever did.

[bobyab]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Oh my, Dumar and Golliath both in one thread. It's like Christmas came early. We need to unban Utnayan so he'll come back and say that if Dumar believes it's so fucking easy to solve all these problems he should stop whining about and fucking do it, to which Dumar will say "It's already be done why should I do it again?" like some kind of fucked up prophecy.

Then we can get Makata who even though we're not even talking about PvP will find some way to whine about the incoming rogue nerfs in PvP and how it totally gimps him and is completely undeserved because a spammable instant cast AE 3 second interupt, mortal strike and cripple totally ins't overpowered (even though they're nerfing shaman totems to no longer pulse rogues out of stealth).

Goliath will respond saying that EQ's pvp had the most control ever because you could charm people and drown them and that it's not the same as charming people in WoW and throwing them off cliffs, totally different! Of course then Mippo will show up and say how he was the world first to ever charm and drown someone in any game ever and we are all ants before him.

We'll leave the thread alone for a couple days only to come back to find some scene from Mad Max going on with Dumar as a big dumb giant and Utnayan energetically humping his head as Master Blaster and Golliath as Tina Turner shouting, "EQ RUN BARTER TOWN"

We have a winner, thread over...

[Slick Willey]

Originally Posted by ArkturusMaximus

WoW doesnt take the "massively" out of MMO, it partitions it in a different manner. In EQ a relative few could keep the masses from experiencing content. How was that "dynamic"? How was that "massively" multiplayer? The only reason it worked for EQ was due to the small number of capable raiding guilds that existed relative to the amount of content available. Look at the progression charts on some of the largest WoW servers and imagine them trying to fight over the same content.

I guarantee you that WoW dungeons have had higher, massive, populations in them than any EQ dungeon ever did.

Please don't encourage him. He is going to respond saying that instancing isn't the "solution," that the "interaction" (i.e., cockblocking, racing other guilds) was "dynamic," you know, the same crap he has been posting for some time now. He wants Ultimate Online with a graphics update. It's that simple, but for some reason no developer is pursuing this option . . . .

[XadionDarkborn]

Got the book its quite nicely done honestly surprised. I will scan and post the 2 pages about eqnext its 2 page background concept art and 1 page text