Next Everquest installment: Everquest "Next".

[Torrid]

Originally Posted by Draegan

It's not really impossible. Look at DDO. It's a game where you run dungeons over and over. You have a lot of variety and objectives.

Ok, I'll use one of Zehn's responses and throw a 'then why aren't you all playing it?' at you. I can tell you I still play EQ1 classic at least. DDO isn't exactly a smash hit.

You know what bores me to tears? Quest grinding. If I check out a MMORPG on youtube, and see some dude clicking an NPC for quest text nobody reads, followed by running to some sparkly shit on the ground, clicking it, and running back to the NPC, then I know I'll hate the game. That is not 'engaging.'

I also find it strange when people whine about too much running around in EQ when I spend far more time running around in WoW and its clones. The difference is that in EQ, you might run for 30 minutes and then stay at that location for hours or even days. In WoW, you're CONSTANTLY running somewhere. Run here, click there. Run here, kill 10 mobs, run to next spot, kill 10 mobs, run back to quest NPCs.

[Zehn - Vhex]

DDO had far too many other crippling issues that got in the way. I'd love to bone Alyssa Milano but if the only way she'd let me is if I accepted being sodomized daily by a rhino I'd probably pass.

The quest inflation thing is a problem though, you'll find no argument from me.

[Palum]

Originally Posted by Torrid

I also find it strange when people whine about too much running around in EQ when I spend far more time running around in WoW and its clones. The difference is that in EQ, you might run for 30 minutes and then stay at that location for hours or even days. In WoW, you're CONSTANTLY running somewhere. Run here, click there. Run here, kill 10 mobs, run to next spot, kill 10 mobs, run back to quest NPCs.

Yes. I prefer to simplify this concept as 'journey vs. errand' game design.

[Draegan]

Originally Posted by Torrid

Ok, I'll use one of Zehn's responses and throw a 'then why aren't you all playing it?' at you. I can tell you I still play EQ1 classic at least. DDO isn't exactly a smash hit.

You know what bores me to tears? Quest grinding. If I check out a MMORPG on youtube, and see some dude clicking an NPC for quest text nobody reads, followed by running to some sparkly shit on the ground, clicking it, and running back to the NPC, then I know I'll hate the game. That is not 'engaging.'

I also find it strange when people whine about too much running around in EQ when I spend far more time running around in WoW and its clones. The difference is that in EQ, you might run for 30 minutes and then stay at that location for hours or even days. In WoW, you're CONSTANTLY running somewhere. Run here, click there. Run here, kill 10 mobs, run to next spot, kill 10 mobs, run back to quest NPCs.

I'd still be playing DDO but at around level 12, the fun stopped, and most stuff became group mandatory or super grind. I leveled like 6 toons up to 12 though and it was amazingly fun.

GW2... well it ain't out yet.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Palum

Yes. I prefer to simplify this concept as 'journey vs. errand' game design.

Games that use a checklist for quests need to die in a fucking fire. Every time I see, "Kill 6 orcs 0/6" I die a little on the inside. How about you just let me kill every fucking orc on my way to the orc king?

One of the things I liked about DDO is it toned that shit down a little bit. You still have an objective, sure, but it wasn't nearly as bad as WoW/SWTOR/Rift where you're told, "Go kill...fuck it, 7 of x, 8 of y and collect 3 of z then come back for your 2000xp and 30 silver coins!"

To be honest, I think the active quest log is the worst thing to happen to RPG's.

[Effix]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

To be honest, I think the active quest log is the worst thing to happen to RPG's.

How else would the masses know where to go. Plus then you get to put great catch phrases in your advertising like 50,000 quests!

Most of the mmo population these days wouldn't have a clue what to do or where to go if they didn't have a quest log telling them complete with glowing lines on their UI pointing them in the right direction. The genre has been dumbed down so much in areas it didn't need to be.

Whats worse is that to force you to do these types of quests the XP from grinding mobs has been reduced so much that unless your actively completing quest goals your generally progressing slower than if you just picked a direction to explore and killed things that got in your way.

That's why imo you often feel like your running so much. Because mobs only have value as long as they check off a tick on your quest kill count. So you run to your objective doing your best to avoid anything that's not on your shopping list of mobs to kill. Once you find what you need to kill you kill 5 or 10 or 20 whatever the amount is, and then hearth/run back to the quest hub as soon as possible to turn it in so you can get the bonus XP and start on the next quest.

Whereas in EQ you could run out to some area, find things to kill, and just kill stuff in that area until you got bored with it. At that point you moved on. Sure travel sucked if Timmy wanted to do Blackburrow and you were LFG in UGuk. But travel feels 100x worse in WoW/TOR/Rift/Etc. because you are constantly interrupting your gameplay with 5 minute breaks as you foot it back to camp if your hearth is on cooldown. You could port and gate as much as you wanted in EQ (assuming your class was capable of it) and it didn't have a negative impact on game play because game play wasn't designed around running back and fourth. Even when they gave hearth to all classes later with the AA's the long cooldown hardly mattered because there was rare times when you needed to use it that often. Unlike in current gen games where you find yourself wanting your cooldown to hurry up because you just finished another block of quests and don't want to run back.

[FoghornDeadhorn]

2012.

*Confetti*

[keb]

Bring back "CAMP CHECK" in area/zone chat please

Only person who should do the running is the puller.

[yoshimura]

Originally Posted by keb

Bring back "CAMP CHECK" in area/zone chat please

Only person who should do the running is the puller.

QFT

Or the druid selling the Fine Steel drops for the group.

[Mkopec1]

I do agree that this quest thing needs to go in mmos, or at least throw some new fucking curve balls so that makes it seem different. Having done this in WoW, Rift, Warhammer and now SWTOR this leveling method is really getting fucking old.

[Itzena]

And what's your alternative solution?

[EmiliaEQ]

Originally Posted by Itzena

And what's your alternative solution?

2-3 interesting chain quests per zone :
- JohnNPC : I've heard there is a dungeon with undead north, can you go check it out ? (discover the location of stratholme)
- Zone in Stratholme : Auto-update -> JohnNPC will surely be interested in more info, go deeper and scout !
- Kill last Boss : Auto-update -> Well you may want to go see JohnNPC. That's a nice Ring/Sword/Shield, too bad you can't use it.
- JohnNPC : Mmm Damn, guess this is more dangerous than we though. THX ! Talk to my Brother about your Ring/Sword/Shield.
- PaulNPC : Get me 5 essence of moonlight and i can uncurse your Ring/Sword/Shield.

And a few lifelong quests :Epic, Dain Shawl, DragonBane, BIC Augment

[Itzena]

That's still quest chains (and also how quite a few Cata quests work in WoW now). Mkopec says he doesn't want quests.

[bitch are your retarded?]

The best "quests" in recent MMOs are the books in LOTRO.

[column]

Only Tyen could destroy an IP as quickly as SOE has with EQ..