[WoW] 4.0 - Cataclysm

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by mek

Healers will only have crit, haste, int, and spi. That's it. Four stats.. how do you make interesting itemization based on that? And DPS casters will only have one more in hit.

You're forgetting this new magical "+more gooderer" stat.

[Valishar]

Originally Posted by mek

Healers will only have crit, haste, int, and spi. That's it. Four stats.. how do you make interesting itemization based on that? And DPS casters will only have one more in hit.

Healer itemization is already that boring, int and spell power aren't really gear choices for them since it comes on every piece of caster gear. If all the extra numbers are the same on every single piece of gear (and they usually are comparable except on trinkets) then it's not worth considering them anyway. The choices healers have now are: crit, haste, spirit, m/5. Classes which use spirit generally don't care about the m/5 and vice-versa, so yeah 4 stats to choose from is what they have now.

I guess it cuts down gem choices, but honestly, most people stack one type of gem anyway other than the meta requirements or if they don't meet one of the caps.

[Malaki]

The only thing I've been disappointed about after everything is announced is the fact that flying mounts are available in the old world zones. STV isn't the same when you can fly away from anything - half the memories of vanilla were being able to engage people that perhaps weren't specifically looking for PvP, and avoiding the damn no-life NE hunter that was ganking people.
I realize that being able to fight people who don't click multiple dialog boxes stating that they wish to fight other players isn't fashionable, but part of what made 1.0 enjoyable was fighting in Hillsbrad, fighting in BRM, fighting wherever, and knowing that people you saw couldn't just run away.
What's the difference between PvE and PvP servers these days, especially when it's an easy transfer to PvE?

[Zehn - Vhex]

They could always do something whacky like give all healers a deep talent or with the new 'talent mastery' system or whatever make expertise reduce mana cost. Or make hit raise the lower bound on heals (so a 4k~6k heal would do 5k~6k for exmple). And so forth.

Part of the problem is that they keep trying to make us care about mana management when we really have no control over that shit. If I run out of mana on a fight it's typically not my fault. If a Mage runs out of mana it's his fault for not managing his shit properly. If I run out of mana it typically means people are standing in void zones again.

The other problem with regen stats is that they're useless if they don't matter. Best demonstration of this is MP5 and Vezax. What fucking good is MP5 on a fight where you don't regenerate mana?

Compare this to haste, int, sp and crit. They're always useful. They're always doing something for you.

It always boils back down to mana being a terrible resource mechanic for these types of games.

[Vatoreus]

Originally Posted by Malaki

The only thing I've been disappointed about after everything is announced is the fact that flying mounts are available in the old world zones. STV isn't the same when you can fly away from anything - half the memories of vanilla were being able to engage people that perhaps weren't specifically looking for PvP, and avoiding the damn no-life NE hunter that was ganking people.
I realize that being able to fight people who don't click multiple dialog boxes stating that they wish to fight other players isn't fashionable, but part of what made 1.0 enjoyable was fighting in Hillsbrad, fighting in BRM, fighting wherever, and knowing that people you saw couldn't just run away.
What's the difference between PvE and PvP servers these days, especially when it's an easy transfer to PvE?

yep, still have to be level 60 to use flying mounts... Your argument doesn't have any real merit here.

[Valishar]

Ironically, the only time regen was my top priority was during BC. The more regen you have the longer you can sustain chain CoH, the better you preform. And this was during the times where you actually had some control with your mana management (aside from 5 min cooldowns), you could downrank and jump out of the 5sR, both of which were nerfed. And you had fights like Bloodboil where the whole fight had constant damage the entire time. Right now the damage is very bursty, which makes regen less important.

[mek]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Compare this to haste, int, sp and crit. They're always useful. They're always doing something for you.

True to an extent. Some classes have haste soft caps, some encounters have haste hard caps (again Vezax, haste is useless for caster dps here). Some encounters make crit insanely overvalued (hi2u hodir), some encounters make regen stats pointless because you can sit on your hands for a minute between phases and regen (Mimiron).

Their goal is supposedly to make all stats matter, but their own design tends to contradict that.

[Northerner]

Originally Posted by DJk_zero

Hunters have never worked correctly while having abilities based on a mana pool.

Neither has any mana-based class period. Early decisions (aka, "you will have enough mana as a dps class to chain your top dps for any fight unless we fuck up but might need to do some stupid shit when we do, and your dps will be balanced around that peak performance") made it all a mess. Mana for dps is fucking stupid at this point and has been for ages.

Mana for healers is pretty damned stupid too but hey, we've only known that since Luclin.

[Malaki]

Originally Posted by Vatoreus

yep, still have to be level 60 to use flying mounts... Your argument doesn't have any real merit here.

The point was to harken back to the good old days of vanilla wow, when you could fight somebody that ran by you (because they had to *run* by you instead of fly). With instance and daily objectives returning to the old world, I was hoping that we would again see high traffic areas in which spontaneous player vs. player combat could occur.

However, Blizzard understandably seems to be taking the path that the game world is for leveling, the instance world is for epix, and the bg/arena world is for pvp leetness. While I'm sure this style attracts more of an audience, and specifically the audience that is still subbed, I don't think I'm alone in wishing that the return to Azeroth also marked the return of meaningful PvE objectives in the open world, as well as open-world pvp.

After all, who do you remember more, the guild who got world first on KJ, or that damn zerg guild you ran into every time you wanted to kill Azuregos? Who do you remember more, your BGs merc/veng/brutal glad 3v3 team or that damn hunter that always ganked you farming pages in silithus?

It's possible that WoW has evolved past the point of server-specific culture, and it's possible that I just like EvE's open world approach to gameplay, but I think that the return to Azeroth could mark the return to what made the game fun before world firsts and esports. I think that flying mounts, while supar awesome, defeated that gameplay. Nobody wants to get ganked - and in fact 60+ only mounts make it easier to gank and suffer no consequences.

[Nairbog]

Originally Posted by Arakkis

Not a single thing there makes me want to resub. An underwater zone? Seriously? Fuck WoW.

I'm assuming you missed that they are revamping underwater combat to make it not annoying. Personally this expansion excites me, very interested to see how they employ phased terrain on Azeroth. Also, am I the only one who is going to roll a goblin? I've always loved their attitude. That and their racials sound fantastic.

[Dassem]

Hm, been off wowcrack for over a year now but this sorta makes me itch again...

Although I know I'll get suckered into hardcore raiding again and hating life so I really shouldn't.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Malaki

The point was to harken back to the good old days of vanilla wow

I bet you hated teleport stones in PoK as well.

The game marches on. You miss ganking, that's fine. You can still prey on people doing quests if that's what gets your willy wet. Just roll up a druid, sit next to some quest NPC while stealthed and get your boner on you stud you.

[Malaki]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

I bet you hated teleport stones in PoK as well.

The game marches on. You miss ganking, that's fine. You can still prey on people doing quests if that's what gets your willy wet. Just roll up a druid, sit next to some quest NPC while stealthed and get your boner on you stud you.

Well, my point was entirely to have max-level PvP / ganking around areas that are desirable to max-level players, like EPL, BRM, AQ and the rep/money grinding areas around them. Flying mounts mean that you can avoid risk at any time, thus my disappointment that return to Azeroth != return to old Azeroth in terms of PvP.

If I wanted to just gank people I could drop out of the sky at 310% speed on top of them - no need to even roll a furry.

[mek]

Flying mounts used to mean you could avoid risk at any time. Now they mean a druid will smack you with Typhoon and laugh at your dura loss.

[Lambourne]

*Most of the Talent Trees will be changed dramatically, a lot of the passive bonuses will be removed and talent trees should be more fun. (No more "Hurray! Level up! I just got 1% more hit!)

This, together with large changes to the way itemization and stats work, sounds like a class balancing clusterfuck waiting to happen. Any major overhaul of talents, itemization or the way stats work has that potential, but doing all three at the same time pretty much guarantees it.

I'm reserving judgment till I hear more about the rated BGs, but so far I'm not really feeling it with this expansion. Neither of the new races appeal to me at all, and with the new itemization they're pretty much telling you "if you are class X, you will wear this and nothing else". Easier to balance I'm sure, but very bland and uninteresting.

Old world overhaul could be good but if they're just going to WotLK-ify it with 10 new reps to grind and do dailies for, meh.