[WoW] 4.0 - Cataclysm

[kasey]

The whole "emphasize war" boils down a paradigm in WoW i call "no sharp edges, nothing to gain nothing to loose". In WoW even the looser gets a badge, a trophy ect. They made loosing easier and better to deal with. Just read the thread "fighting over dragons". Just look at all the stirred up emotions over crap in a virtual world.

If you want better pvp you first need to have "a dragon to fight over". Not an instance everyone can enter. It needs to be something only a few can have and many cannot have. This in return will incite greed, jealousy and everything else that is needed to oil the hate/love machine that is true player versus player interaction. Even if its just a glowing trophy of empty gayness. If its the only trophy and it makes you special - its on.

And this stands in direct contrast to everything WoW is designed for. Easy access, easy loot and no hard feelings. It is beyond me why there is no grief server type with limited content for the hardcore basement dwellers. What is so wrong with catering to different tastes via different servers.

Personally i think Blizzard will copy the WoW model over into a new setting(sci fi?). They want another cow to milk and not reinvent the wheel. We will get WoW in space most likely and pvp will be boring again and i will have to deal with kids again (or better i wont even play this new mmo after i read threads here for a year and its evident how lame it is).

boo-hoo

man we need star craft 2 the mass online real time stragey game ffs

[Gauss]

Originally Posted by Xzi

I just want a new PvE oriented MMO like older WoW and even EQ raid content... the finished content. Not the "Hey, we don't actually test this, so here find our bugs" content every patch.

Uh Blackwing Lair was quite possibly the most bugged/untested instance Blizzard has ever released. Rose-tinted glasses much?

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Gauss

Uh Blackwing Lair was quite possibly the most bugged/untested instance Blizzard has ever released. Rose-tinted glasses much?

No shit, did someone just say finished raid content and EQ in the same sentence?

[Zehn - Vhex]

We talked about it in GMG, but open world pvp will never be balanced. Even if the factions are perfectly split 50/50 or 33/33/33 or 25/25/etc.., you can never guarantee an even number of people will show up at each fight. What you're hoping will be massive battles pushing back and forth will end up being giant gank squads on both sides roaming around picking one or two people off at a time.

Then as time goes on one side will begin to emerge the clear winner most of the time. People will get sick of constantly losing and give up, good players tend to want to play together because who the fuck wants to get their ass stomped playing with newbies.

Why join the losing team for some half-assed incentives like bonus xp and gold which you could give a shit about when you can join the winning team and have all the content on farm with no competition?

Anyways...

It is beyond me why there is no grief server type with limited content for the hardcore basement dwellers.

Join the tournaments. It's basically what you want only instead of some random new shiney at the end it's cash. "Permadeath elimination" and everything. Have fun.

Or do you just mean you want to gank and grief random people with victory being them rage logging and never playing again? Because that's a pretty fucking awesome business model to base your game on.

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

We talked about it in GMG, but open world pvp will never be balanced. Even if the factions are perfectly split 50/50 or 33/33/33 or 25/25/etc.., you can never guarantee an even number of people will show up at each fight. What you're hoping will be massive battles pushing back and forth will end up being giant gank squads on both sides roaming around picking one or two people off at a time.

Then as time goes on one side will begin to emerge the clear winner most of the time. People will get sick of constantly losing and give up, good players tend to want to play together because who the fuck wants to get their ass stomped playing with newbies.

Why join the losing team for some half-assed incentives like bonus xp and gold which you could give a shit about when you can join the winning team and have all the content on farm with no competition?

Anyways...



Join the tournaments. It's basically what you want only instead of some random new shiney at the end it's cash. "Permadeath elimination" and everything. Have fun.

Or do you just mean you want to gank and grief random people with victory being them rage logging and never playing again? Because that's a pretty fucking awesome business model to base your game on.

Well the incentives would have to be more than halfassed.. and the sides avoiding each other like in warhammer is what happens when you have too many objectives that you can take in any order.

I think you might be surprised at how many of the 'elite' pvpers would switch for incentives and for harder fights... especially if most of the reward is tied to killing players defending objectives rather than taking empty objectives. Hard stuff to design for sure, I just wish they would use their technology to try it out since wows mass pvp used to be surprisingly good given the type of game. (and still is lots of fun despite WG lagging so hard cause they dont invest in new servers)

[Xzi]

Originally Posted by Gauss

Uh Blackwing Lair was quite possibly the most bugged/untested instance Blizzard has ever released. Rose-tinted glasses much?

Like I said, the finished content. The finished product that takes fucking 5 months to fix. (trust me/ been there)

And I was referring to the raids in general for their difficulty level. I guess I could have worded it better.

[Vandyn]

Originally Posted by Tolanin

WoW sadly seems kinda set in the mold and isnt doing much new anymore.

I think that is pretty much what your going to get with WoW. The game is successful based on what it is, not what people want it to be. Yea, new ideas would be great and they may implement some of them, but it's always going to be with a heavy hand to make sure it doesn't upset the core balance of what WoW is (or what it has become), namely easy, accessible and user friendly. It has to be that way because that is what a majority of their subscribers pay for.

I'm actually of an opinion that their second MMO is what they are using to try new things, even if those things are focused at a less casual crowd. It gives them the opportunity to try more riskier things since I'm sure they are not trying to replace WoW.

[krax]

I'll balance the factions for you guys: free for all. I am not saying they should make the whole game free for all, but it would be lots of fun if they had a part of the game that was free for all where guilds could build their own bases, just like a Warcraft 3.

[Xenrauk]

Originally Posted by Burning_Samurai

If we didn't head into a BG and try to steal flags, who knows wtf would happen to the Alliance capitals.

Maybe it's time they stuck a flag in Thunderbluff and one in Ironforge on PvP servers for open world wsg, with no bullshit instant flag return, when the flag drops you still have to run that sucker back to your city, make it a fight for every inch.

With the rewards being like locking out the other entire side from dungeons for a couple days, who wouldn't want to participate in pissing off the other side by locking them out of their dungeons

[Tolanin]

Originally Posted by Xenrauk

Maybe it's time they stuck a flag in Thunderbluff and one in Ironforge on PvP servers for open world wsg, with no bullshit instant flag return, when the flag drops you still have to run that sucker back to your city, make it a fight for every inch.

With the rewards being like locking out the other entire side from dungeons for a couple days, who wouldn't want to participate in pissing off the other side by locking them out of their dungeons

thats pretty much exactly what they didn't want to do and why they moved away from that in the first place... now with phasing they could bring it back without fucking over newbs by turning the newb areas into warzones.

[Malakie Torsade]

Originally Posted by Xenrauk

Maybe it's time they stuck a flag in Thunderbluff and one in Ironforge on PvP servers for open world wsg, with no bullshit instant flag return, when the flag drops you still have to run that sucker back to your city, make it a fight for every inch.

Population imbalance destroys this idea. On most PvE servers, Alliance would have the flag 95% of the time. Horde would grab it occasionally at 3 AM during the week but the zerg would reclaim in 3 hours later. This would cause the population problems to snowball as people would get tired of never having access to these special dungeons and re-roll.

[Xenrauk]

Would only suggest that for PvP servers only. Yeah I know whatever they do they apply to all server types, which is why open pvp got screwed in the first place. But it would be nice that pvp servers actually served a purpose other than providing random ganking while leveling.

They didn't want open pvp because it interrupted pve gameplay, but you know that was 4 years ago, when the game wasn't even a year old. Now I think it would be ok to bring back open pvp on pvp servers. If someone doesn't like it they can always transfer off the server, which wasn't available 4 years ago, they rolled on a pvp server they should expect pvp to happen.

The reward doesn't have to last as long as a couple days, could set it as long as the other side has your flag in their city you can't run dungeons, after you get it back you have a 24 hr cooldown before it can be taken or something.

But yes as with any open zone event population will fuck over the idea anyways. Maybe they can design a battleground that overlaps a portion of the world zones. Like an instanced battleground that runs from Undercity to Ironforge, let it be like the first AV that could last for days, 100v100

Wonder how many people would start over to play on a heavy pvp server that catered to open pvp objectives like Halaa in almost every zone, battlegrounds, arena, with most of the gearing up just being through pvp rewards. Basically shut off the raids and dungeons and leave that to the regular servers.

[Vandyn]

Originally Posted by Xenrauk

Would only suggest that for PvP servers only. Yeah I know whatever they do they apply to all server types, which is why open pvp got screwed in the first place. But it would be nice that pvp servers actually served a purpose other than providing random ganking while leveling.

They didn't want open pvp because it interrupted pve gameplay, but you know that was 4 years ago, when the game wasn't even a year old. Now I think it would be ok to bring back open pvp on pvp servers. If someone doesn't like it they can always transfer off the server, which wasn't available 4 years ago, they rolled on a pvp server they should expect pvp to happen.

The reward doesn't have to last as long as a couple days, could set it as long as the other side has your flag in their city you can't run dungeons, after you get it back you have a 24 hr cooldown before it can be taken or something.

But yes as with any open zone event population will fuck over the idea anyways. Maybe they can design a battleground that overlaps a portion of the world zones. Like an instanced battleground that runs from Undercity to Ironforge, let it be like the first AV that could last for days, 100v100

Wonder how many people would start over to play on a heavy pvp server that catered to open pvp objectives like Halaa in almost every zone, battlegrounds, arena, with most of the gearing up just being through pvp rewards. Basically shut off the raids and dungeons and leave that to the regular servers.

They're not going to penalize by barring you from entering content. The shitstorm would get out of control as soon as that lasted more than a day. Besides, even the PvP server populations aren't really hardcore PvP'ers anymore. They have been de-sensitized over 4 years of being the stepchild to PvE.

[Thengel]

Originally Posted by Xenrauk

they rolled on a pvp server they should expect pvp to happen.

No, they rolled on a pvp server knowing pvp doesn't really happen.

[Zaphid]

Have you been licking lead paint today or what ? The stupidity of this discussion is starting to reach official forums.

World pvp is a myth, people only did that, because they were fucking bored out of their mind. When I was grinding in Tyr's, I welcomed every alliance char that I could kill because it was better than grinding. Once you have an objective that rewards you with +10 gooder, which some people work towards, actively destroying their progress is great way to drive them from your game. If the objective is something everyone wants, the side that gets screwed by population imbalance/not enough people on/not enough people with brain on is gonna get pissed and is prone to leave/transfer, creating a snowball effect. If the reward is piece of shit (see: Halaa) then nobody bothers, because there is enough shit to do in WoW anyway without wanking on an enemy's flag.

The only thing that killed world pvp were not instances but stuff to do in general, like achievements and so on. The fact that you can log in, grind yourself retarded with dailies which give you a clear objective, which pvp prevents you from completing, should tell you that most people simply are not interested.