category Mythic and BioWare Form New RPG/MMO Group - Page 4

Peon-Leon · 06-25-2009, 02:24 PM

Mark Jacobs' departure leaves Mythic employees 'shocked'

James · 06-25-2009, 02:40 PM

Aw man. I was hoping like he walked in the middle of the office, shouted obscenities at the top of his lungs, and took a heaping shit all over the employee's desk he hated the most all the while giving him the finger. That would leave me shocked. Some dude getting canned over a shitty game, not so much.

Mippo · 06-25-2009, 02:54 PM

Mark Jacobs didn't know what he was doing. He made so many major design flaws in WAR getting fired is the only logical outcome. They would've been retarded to keep him on after he failed so miserably.

On a basic level, WAR never should've had 2 teams. You want open pvp or 3 teams so that people can balance out any differences in population.

It was a train wreck in WoW too as some servers initially had 2+ hour waits for battlegrounds. It got better when they grouped servers up, but the difference is that WoW is bringing people in to instanced PVP with a number cap and it's not nearly as important for them to balance things out then it is for an open pvp game like WAR.

It's also considerably harder to balance things when the various classes are different. You can get around it, but it takes a lot more work. People can't really complain about class balance if both sides have the same classes. It becomes really important to balance the classes with only two sides because a population imbalance screws the game.

That's just on the game design level before you even get to the actual mechanics of shit in the end such as how the RVR worked, or the simple design flaw of having nothing really worthwhile to fight over.

Bongk · 06-25-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mippo

Mark Jacobs didn't know what he was doing. He made so many major design flaws in WAR getting fired is the only logical outcome. They would've been retarded to keep him on after he failed so miserably.

On a basic level, WAR never should've had 2 teams. You want open pvp or 3 teams so that people can balance out any differences in population.

It was a train wreck in WoW too as some servers initially had 2+ hour waits for battlegrounds. It got better when they grouped servers up, but the difference is that WoW is bringing people in to instanced PVP with a number cap and it's not nearly as important for them to balance things out then it is for an open pvp game like WAR.

It's also considerably harder to balance things when the various classes are different. You can get around it, but it takes a lot more work. People can't really complain about class balance if both sides have the same classes. It becomes really important to balance the classes with only two sides because a population imbalance screws the game.

That's just on the game design level before you even get to the actual mechanics of shit in the end such as how the RVR worked, or the simple design flaw of having nothing really worthwhile to fight over.

Not knowing shit about WAR lore, is there a 3rd side they could have done with the lore?

Quince · 06-25-2009, 03:27 PM

Good, Evil, and Beastman/Neutral (Wood elves, Lizardmen, Ogers, Giants,) etc

machineman · 06-25-2009, 04:41 PM

Jacobs just updated his blog:

All Things Must Come to an End « Online Games Are a Niche Market

bubblegumbo · 06-25-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Overall, the source said that the mood is positive at Mythic, expressing that "a lot of people" at the studio would like to work on Star Wars: The Old Republic. The source concluded by saying that the employees of Mythic "will continue to go on without their fearless leader.

Yea I am sure everyone wants to work on Star Wars.
No thanks, especially the incompetent programmers that made the WAR game engine. What a piece of shit.

Azrayne · 06-25-2009, 05:45 PM

Even though I only have a cursory knowledge of Warhammer lore, I always thought it odd they didn't make Chaos an independant third faction. Keep Order as it is, Dark Elves/Green Skins/insert another of the myriad of evil races here, then pick three of the chaos gods and make them a third faction. In the story isn't it generally the case that Chaos mostly stick to themselves anyway?

Two factions was an awful decision though, as was making the game world so disjointed and unintuitive by using the 'racial pairings'

And instanced pvp of any description

Froofy-D · 06-25-2009, 06:53 PM

I disagree on the instancing. The WAR Scenarios are an amazingly fun way to level up. WAR is 20 times more fun to level up in that WOW (which is probably why Blizzard is introducing XP for PVP). With the bolster buff and lack of any real twinking you could PVP from day 1 in the game and stand a reasonable chance to do well.

The biggest problems were:

(1) Scenarios should have been cross-server from the start

(2) Scenarios should have been completely random, so the next group in queue goes to a random Scenario (no Tor Anroc/Serpents Passage/24-7)

(3) Scenarios should not have contributed to world map domination

woqqqa · 06-25-2009, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongk

Not knowing shit about WAR lore, is there a 3rd side they could have done with the lore?

Yes. In fact, in Warhammer lore, none of the various factions really get along all that much, so aside from opposing sides like the Empire and Chaos, or the feuding elves, you could've had some decently interesting combinations. I would've liked to have seen Chaos Dwarves.

Maleficence · 06-25-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woqqqa

Yes. In fact, in Warhammer lore, none of the various factions really get along all that much, so aside from opposing sides like the Empire and Chaos, or the feuding elves, you could've had some decently interesting combinations. I would've liked to have seen Chaos Dwarves.

Adding to this the Undead faction generally acts as a mediating force between Chaos and Empire. They're not happy with a strong empire, yet Chaos is anathema to them. So they'll intervene and help whichever side benefits them the most. That's an easy third side.

But as mentioned, the "alliance" is really quite sketchy overall. It's mostly a brutal free for all world.

Gecko · 06-25-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubblegumbo

Yea I am sure everyone wants to work on Star Wars.
No thanks, especially the incompetent programmers that made the WAR game engine. What a piece of shit.

I believe the engine they used was purchased from the same company they originally bought the DAOC one from.

I'm pretty sure a lot of other games use it, also.

Wash · 06-26-2009, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gecko

I believe the engine they used was purchased from the same company they originally bought the DAOC one from.

I'm pretty sure a lot of other games use it, also.

The term "engine" is kinda fuzzy. That's probably referring to the graphics engine, not necessarily the UI and the network, which seemed to be the main problems with WAR. When you press a button and nothing happens for two seconds, that's not the graphics engine, it's their network: the client is waiting for a response from the server before it passes the info on to you, which results in lag. Games like EQ and WoW avoid it by having the client anticipate what's going to happen next-- which is less accurate, and sometimes results in weird "rubber-banding" effects-- but overall makes the game more seamless for the user. WAR didn't seem to do that. It seemed to do a straight up "send info to server, wait for server", just like a web browser, resulting in massive and painful lag on every action.

But on the DAoC/WAR graphics engine itself: it was always a little bit clunky. "Blocky" is the word that always popped into my head, when I was running around in DAoC and hitting invisible obstacles, or having to make wide turns around walls when I should have been able to make a 90-degree turn around them. It was like there was an invisible box around the player that made going around corners or moving in tight spaces awkward. You only ever noticed it in cities or buildings, but it was definitely there.

Itzena · 06-26-2009, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleficence

Adding to this the Undead faction generally acts as a mediating force between Chaos and Empire. They're not happy with a strong empire, yet Chaos is anathema to them. So they'll intervene and help whichever side benefits them the most. That's an easy third side.

But as mentioned, the "alliance" is really quite sketchy overall. It's mostly a brutal free for all world.

Hell, you could have had orcs et. al. as a side by itself and thrown in beastmen to take their place for Chaos. The way WAR is set up is pretty lollore, actually.

spronk · 06-26-2009, 07:09 AM

Perhaps I am wrong in this but I always thought one of the takeaways from WAR is that if you want to have millions of subs in the MMO world you need to have a very, very strong PVE game in addition to a good PVP game. No doubt a PVP focused game can be successful, but you won't get nearly as many subs as one that bills itself as PVE. And by PVE, I really mean "you can play solo and group when you need to", which is anathema to many people here.

It sounds a lot like Biowares new MMO is very heavy PVE/solo based, so we'll see how that works out. Of course the games gotta be fun, responsive, balanced, easy to learn, and good for hundreds of hours.

06-25-2009, 04:41 PM	#51 (permalink)
machineman born by the river Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 482 -60 Internets	Jacobs just updated his blog: All Things Must Come to an End « Online Games Are a Niche Market __________________ If you're a WARboi, please don't forget to give me a -internet.

06-25-2009, 05:45 PM	#53 (permalink)
Azrayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Awsome Posts: 3,281	Even though I only have a cursory knowledge of Warhammer lore, I always thought it odd they didn't make Chaos an independant third faction. Keep Order as it is, Dark Elves/Green Skins/insert another of the myriad of evil races here, then pick three of the chaos gods and make them a third faction. In the story isn't it generally the case that Chaos mostly stick to themselves anyway? Two factions was an awful decision though, as was making the game world so disjointed and unintuitive by using the 'racial pairings' And instanced pvp of any description Last edited by Azrayne; 06-25-2009 at 05:48 PM..

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06-25-2009, 02:24 PM	#46 (permalink)
Peon-Leon Something need doing? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 61	Mark Jacobs' departure leaves Mythic employees 'shocked'

06-25-2009, 02:54 PM	#48 (permalink)
Mippo Retard Rehabilitation Program Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Picasso's Thread Posts: 2,242 -176 Internets	Mark Jacobs didn't know what he was doing. He made so many major design flaws in WAR getting fired is the only logical outcome. They would've been retarded to keep him on after he failed so miserably. On a basic level, WAR never should've had 2 teams. You want open pvp or 3 teams so that people can balance out any differences in population. It was a train wreck in WoW too as some servers initially had 2+ hour waits for battlegrounds. It got better when they grouped servers up, but the difference is that WoW is bringing people in to instanced PVP with a number cap and it's not nearly as important for them to balance things out then it is for an open pvp game like WAR. It's also considerably harder to balance things when the various classes are different. You can get around it, but it takes a lot more work. People can't really complain about class balance if both sides have the same classes. It becomes really important to balance the classes with only two sides because a population imbalance screws the game. That's just on the game design level before you even get to the actual mechanics of shit in the end such as how the RVR worked, or the simple design flaw of having nothing really worthwhile to fight over.

06-25-2009, 03:27 PM	#50 (permalink)
Quince The hammer is my penis. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 397 -27 Internets	Good, Evil, and Beastman/Neutral (Wood elves, Lizardmen, Ogers, Giants,) etc

06-25-2009, 06:53 PM	#54 (permalink)
Froofy-D upper management material Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,285 +20 Internets	I disagree on the instancing. The WAR Scenarios are an amazingly fun way to level up. WAR is 20 times more fun to level up in that WOW (which is probably why Blizzard is introducing XP for PVP). With the bolster buff and lack of any real twinking you could PVP from day 1 in the game and stand a reasonable chance to do well. The biggest problems were: (1) Scenarios should have been cross-server from the start (2) Scenarios should have been completely random, so the next group in queue goes to a random Scenario (no Tor Anroc/Serpents Passage/24-7) (3) Scenarios should not have contributed to world map domination

06-26-2009, 07:09 AM	#60 (permalink)
spronk nerd Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,131	Perhaps I am wrong in this but I always thought one of the takeaways from WAR is that if you want to have millions of subs in the MMO world you need to have a very, very strong PVE game in addition to a good PVP game. No doubt a PVP focused game can be successful, but you won't get nearly as many subs as one that bills itself as PVE. And by PVE, I really mean "you can play solo and group when you need to", which is anathema to many people here. It sounds a lot like Biowares new MMO is very heavy PVE/solo based, so we'll see how that works out. Of course the games gotta be fun, responsive, balanced, easy to learn, and good for hundreds of hours.