[WoW] 3.2 - Call of the Crusade

[Pren]

Originally Posted by Lenas

Klandicar at least deserves on the list considering he was harder than Zlandicar. And if Lord D from velks makes the list, I would suggest adding Vaniki from DN.

Don't forget 10th ring war as a pretty spectacular raid.

Western wastes dragons were raid targets for lower end guilds. The family guild I was in raided there several times.

HoT/west ToV/kael arena were definitely raid targets too.

Didn't they revamp hate and fear during SoV too? 2nd floor of hate, cz and innoruk buffs?

You had a lot more tiers of raiding going on, WoW is trying to keep everyone at the same place. Especially since they invalidate old content with expansions. You still had people raiding kunark, and old world too. You had people raiding before the level cap, doing epic quests, etc.

The game structure was just entirely different. And it's really too bad, because they have to raise the level limit and make all older areas completely worthless in this model.

Not doing gear resets, going up 5 levels per expansion, and a few other changes could have made the world feel a lot more alive and vibrant.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Pren

Don't forget 10th ring war as a pretty spectacular raid.

It isn't about raising levels to invalidate old content. It was that only one, maybe two guilds could contend for high end content. If only one guild could do Ulduar a week you'd be seeing the exact same shit going on. And it would be a fucking disaster.

It isn't a 'shame' at all. New people if they want to go see the old content just to experience it can go do it if they want. PUG's form 2~3x a week for that stuff for achievement runs and whatnot.

And I don't have to ever fucking set foot in Molten Core again. It was okay for a little bit, but after doing that shit for months? No thanks. Alive and vibrant my ass. I'll gladly take gear resets over doing Sunwell again because there's fuck else to do for gear.

[Northerner]

Come on now though, in EQ (yeah, I know) we all got to see that content, slightly nerfed by new 'free' gear in due course, because that originally was the content progression.

I did Ssra when it was old hat for LoS on my server. We had little to no shot when it was cutting edge because we were not ready and because the top dogs owned it. I still got to see it and damned if it wasn't fun and challenging even then. I got to see VT, all of PoP and so on through the timeline. At some points I was cutting edge, at others I was not. The content was not wasted at all because you needed to progress through it eventually, even in a nerfed state.

In WoW this is not only not the case but it is explicitly not the case. You can take two, six or fifteen months off and you''ll be back to 90%+ of your raiding capability inside of three weeks if not two. Hell man, I quit in TBC at Brutallus (job + idiots in my guild) and came back in February of this year. It took all of three weeks to hit level cap, hit some heroics and naxx twice to get to acceptible gear to do 9x% of my BiS potential. Week four was a first kill for the new guild on 3d-25 (ten was already done but VW cheesed) and achievement whoring galore. The guild as a whole was about a month old at that point.

It is a blessing and a curse I guess but it sure as hell is a design philosophy that seems to work in terms of subs. It doesn't work for me very well though and I'm still not sure it is exactly resource efficient. That said, who the fuck am I to argue with a multi-million sub company when I have at my best written software for data sponges in the corporate world.

[Quineloe]

oh boy I'm glad I'm no longer playing the DK. nothing sucks more than the final talent of a tree not being an active combat ability. *snores*

Dreadsteed: Can now be learned at level 40.

have they already removed the quest for that?



[quote]Lord Bob was not a fucking raid encounter; he was more akin to a heroic 5 man boss. Era-appropriate he only took 18 if you didn't suck nuts.[/uqote]

18 is not a raid? O,o

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Northerner

Come on now though

Or you could join an uber guild, soak up rot loot and skip all that in EQ as well. Don't bring that bullshit nostalgia into a WoW thread, nobody is going to buy it. I quit EQ during PoP, came back about 2 months later, still during PoP, rolled up a Necro and within 3 weeks had about 5 pieces of PoTime loot. I didn't have to scrounge my way through NToV and VT first.

It wasn't some great design philosophy, it was the nature of getting cock blocked by a better guild. It's no different then a scrub guild that can't beat Ulduar heroics. The loot is out of reach for them so they settle for the next best thing.

If we could lock down Ulduar so nobody else could do it, they'd all be in Naxx. The #2 guild would then lock down Naxx because fuck if we're going to waste our time. That means the other 4000 some odd people on our server would then be forced to farm Violet Hold all day with the occasional 4-way scrub guild drama over Malygos when resident uber guild doesn't bother to kill it for loot for their alts.

Fun fun fun!

WoW's got a shitton of problems. Old content that's been done to death not being used anymore isn't one of them.

Edit:

Originally Posted by James

Venril Sathir was an excellent fight. The whole concept behind it is still pretty badass to this day.

One of Verant's first big "oopsie!" encounters too. Let's make blocking a normal melee hit also completely prevent the mobs proc from going off and then have VS hit for 10. Oops!

So glad Blizzard learned from that mistake and totally didn't let you do the same thing in MC against core...oh wait! Haha!

[mek]

Originally Posted by Northerner

Naxx- Oh, we skipped that? k.

Balance isn't Blizzard's MMO forte. Sad really given how damned good they are at it for SC.

I skipped Naxx and Sunwell because, based on my conversations with many players, these were the highlights of the game for them. While other raid dungeons were remembered for frustrations, these ones were remembered for the triumph of finally beating them. They were flawed, certainly, but those flaws were in both cases due to fundamental mechanics (not enough tanks, too many shamans, etc) and not the fault of the raid designers.

[Itzena]

Originally Posted by Lenas

WoW's 2nd expansion. Shall I compare it to Velious?

Draconic graveyards, big temple where all the dragonflights meet, out-of-place tropical jungle surrounded by frozen wastes, ice dwarves, frost giants, and so on.

[meStevo]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

have they already removed the quest for that?

All quested mounts can be trained, as of like 3.0 I think, or shortly before WotLK.

[Itzena]

The respective quests are still in for people who want to do them, though.

[Quineloe]

to be honest, WL was hardly an out of place tropical jungle and more of a forest.

[Teron D'Amun]

Originally Posted by Northerner

BWL- The real cockblocks there (Horde) were Vael 1.0 and the lack of BoS for later shit. The Nef issues were real but relatively trivial in comparison. Anyone that could consistently drop Brood (Blood?) Lord deserves a nod.

the real cockblock in BWL pre Nef was Chromaggus with his bugged breaths/dots that only could be avoided by z-axis exploiting, vael 1.0 even was a joke when he "forget" to use BA and had no fire aura at all, then Blizzard threw around a lot of hot fixes to fix BA until it didn't targeted the one who was top on aggro first

[Vandyn]

It's a good debate (wotlk vs SoV). Time spent in the expansion is irrelevant since EQ progression had built in timesinks (faction, guilds, etc) in it. If Velious didn't have 'EQ' restrictions on advancement through end-game content (basically removing guild's ability to cockblock), how long do you think that content would of lasted?

[SalaciousTunare]

Originally Posted by Quineloe

have they already removed the quest for that?

Yeah, I noticed you could train both mounts from the trainer on my warlock disenchant bot.

[SalaciousTunare]

Originally Posted by Itzena

Draconic graveyards, big temple where all the dragonflights meet, out-of-place tropical jungle surrounded by frozen wastes, ice dwarves, frost giants, and so on.

Yes, but at least there are no dragons camping the Dalaran mage portal entrance.

Looking back though... Velious had some seriously fucked up things in it. A fucking dragon corpse camping a druid ring, the entire Sontalaak guarding the entrance to ToV (Sontalaak was harder than WToV and Halls of Testing) Even shit like the Cobalt Scar Drakes (at release they were retarded over powered), pre-nerf spider poisons in Velketor's Lab were RETARDED difficult to heal. Shit like swimming through Siren's Grotto (pre-corner camping trick) to get to Western Wastes... God damn.

[Vinen]

Originally Posted by Northerner

Let's do problems where they actually were though (and yes, they existed).

MC- Rag was a cockblock for a bit but it was in situ not that bad. We still had people leveling up and Blizz figuring out that +frost was better than +int and shit like that. Rag *was* beatable but bugged when launched, we were all just a little too stupid to game the system well enough with imbalanced items and strats for the most part. Yes indeed the bugs would hinder but it wasn't a hard block like PoE.

I'm quite sure that Ragnarnos was nigh impossible in his 1.0 version. I can't remember why though... Soon as they changed him he fell over immediately.