[WoW] 3.2 - Call of the Crusade

[James]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

What? Stopped reading there.. He was first slain on April 25th, 6 months after launch? Not bad considering the circumstances.

For posteriety's sake, Majordomo was killed Feb. 10th. You are obviously referring to the 1 hour and lolbye version, but it was 2 months, not a year. And he probably was beatable.. but it was still retarded.

'1 hour lolbye' was Nef, no? Ragnaros was unkillable until 1.3, which changed the lava splashes from environmental to fire, reduced the rate of them, and introduced a bug where they would stop occurring after the first wipe provided you made it past the first sons wave (not hard). Not many guilds actually got to put time in on him, though.

[Twobit Whore]

No, he despawned after one hour for a while. They made many changes to him at once.. just the first of many overtunings. Anyway, point was it was a matter of a month that he was unkillable, not a year.

[James]

He never stopped despawning after an hour. Well, maybe two hours later on? Not sure. Another big thing they changed in 1.3 was wipe recovery though, fucker would aggro on you halfway across the zone so it was tough to res.

[mek]

Two months and two weeks guilds were on Ragnaros while he was unkillable; he existed in an unkillable state for over 6 months (from release to patch). So we agree then, great.

Nef, Ragnaros, and of course Vael all had versions of the "1 hour lolbye" but Vael was the only boss where it was acknowledged by blizzard as intentional. In the other cases, they were supposedly bugs. MMmmm polish.

edit: Nef's was different in that it just made you take a 30 minute break to soft-reset the instance, and probably actually was a bug. Ragnaros' was a little random as well, basically he would get stuck submerged and not come back. The submerge was buggy as all hell and had fun new bugs every patch.

Anyway, my point is that WotLK is SO MUCH MORE POLISHED than anything that came before, it's absurd to argue otherwise.

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by James

He never stopped despawning after an hour. Well, maybe two hours later on? Not sure. Another big thing they changed in 1.3 was wipe recovery though, fucker would aggro on you halfway across the zone so it was tough to res.

Yeah, they made it 2 hours the next major patch, but he was already dead by then. Those changes in 1.3 were what really made him go down. Then later they made him a bit tougher, only to nerf it again.

[Valishar]

Velious: (Which lasted almost exactly 1 year before Luclin came out)
ToV - 19 encounters
Sleepers - 6
Elsewhere - 13 (Lord Bob, Dain, Vindi, Statue, AoW, Tormax, Yelinak, Koi'Doken, Velketor, Wuoshi, Tunare, Sontalak, Zlandicar)

38 encounters

Northrend: (Seven Months in)
Ulduar - 14
Nax - 15
Elsewhere - 4

33 encounters

It's more but not FAR more, it is just really spread out, and you had to compete with the server for them which basically means you had far less than the 38 to attempt at any week. And qualitatively they don't compare, even Sartharion zero drakes is more complicated than the average Velious boss.

edit: forgot VoA

[Twobit Whore]

Elsewhere should include Malygos, Sarth, and VoA x2 eh?

[meStevo]

Originally Posted by Valishar

And qualitatively they don't compare, even Sartharion zero drakes is more complicated than the average Velious boss.

Someone on a VoA run I was in this morning for some reason made a macro for when the nova started to get cast... they used 'melee hide now!' and I swear I had an EQ flashback to a handful of encounters, heh.

[Lenas]

Originally Posted by James

Angst

Calm down nerdrage, don't get off topic. My original point was that EQ expansions, to begin with, had more content than WoW expansions. The polish comment wasn't even directed towards you. You know that plowing through content in less than a week is bullshit. That's not up for debate, doesn't matter if you count hard modes or not. The bosses still die, the quests still get done and the storyline is over after 4 days. Don't try to say that the timesink in Velious was a faction grind, either, because that only took a few days if you were serious.

I love WoW as much as anyone else, but I don't understand how you can say that LK has more meaningful (see: endgame) content than Velious did.

Originally Posted by Valishar

mob counts

Maybe you should include some of the WW dragons (the 'Dar family, Myga, Klandicar), or Sirens Grotto bosses.

[findar]

ragnaros was largely unkillable because after the first time he was summoned he would chain lava splashes. you got 1 attempt a week basically and then it was impossible mode.

Maybe you should include some of the WW dragons (the 'Dar family, Myga, Klandicar), or Sirens Grotto bosses.

the WW dragons were jokes. sirens grotto had no real bosses(princess? sea horse? both were just regular rare spawns)

[Lenas]

Klandicar at least deserves on the list considering he was harder than Zlandicar. And if Lord D from velks makes the list, I would suggest adding Vaniki from DN.

[Araxen]

Nax shouldn't even be counted because it's all recycled content. The first real Northrend raid dungeon didn't occur till Uld. SoV was all original content.

[Valishar]

Originally Posted by Lenas

Klandicar at least deserves on the list considering he was harder than Zlandicar. And if Lord D from velks makes the list, I would suggest adding Vaniki from DN.

I'd probably just switch Kland and Bob on the list anyways. My memory is a little spotty on those outdoor bosses, and I can't really remember if Vaniki and Bob were doable with one good group or not, there was a tendancy to zerg things to be on the safe side.

As for recycled vs. original? I still consider Sleepers tomb revamp and VP revamp as new content as well, the fact that the zone has the same geometry just means it is cheaper and lamer content than unique zone geometry.

[Rusty Dagger]

Originally Posted by TheCutlery

Unfortunately, people have been saying that since S3 and fucktards like you keep playing in it, preventing any real meaningful changes to it that would, oh, I dunno, actually make it fun, or worthwhile.

Okay I'll bite. What on earth could someone like me PLAYING THE GAME possibly do to weaken arena? I mean I get you want to just angst at me and insult me for any possible reason that pops in your head but can you at least attempt to be logical?

2s bracket is now pointless seeing as people don't give a shit about last season's gear (if they don't already have it) and the rating on them is very low anyway. Most people just straight up do not enjoy 5s since it's a royal clusterfuck which leaves pretty much JUST 3s which, again, are not as enjoyable as 2s. Am I going to keep playing? Probably since I had a 3s team anyway but it doesn't stop it from being a stupid stupid change. Blizzard seems to have this bizarre notion that balance of the classes is actually important to pvp. One or two classes are always going to be at the top and cookie cutter comps de jour are always going to be what wins the most and they are never going to stop this. Massive sweeping class changes (see: 3.2) just exacerbate the problem and we're caught in a never-ending cycle of a lotto machine deciding what's fotm this patch.

2s had a ton of problems and some of the landscape changes help this tremendously (though I didn't see a word about rov, the worst fucking arena map ever made) benching it as a legitimate progression path is just stupid. What is so bad about 2s? Every single class has at least some reasonably good comp with it. DKs, paladins, rogues, and any healer get free passes, hunters are decent with a healer, mage/rogue, warlock/rogue which leaves only warriors which are still good enough + a paladin or druid to break 2k without much difficulty. What is the problem or going further, what is the precedent? It's not like 3s is magically balanced just because there's another person on each side. Alot of the same tactics still apply and until they do something about RMP, those 3 classes are now basically the only pvp classes. Even at the MLG, a 3s comp built specifically to counter RMP lost to RMP. 3s is if anything MORE imbalanced than 2s.

[Blackulaa]

I hope the trend of arena angst continues, and they finally create a battle ground ranked system with some actual objectives that appeases to tanks, healers, and dps.