The random WoW/other MMO shit thread

[Vinen]

Originally Posted by Torrid

Warsong sucks cock when your allies suck cock. When you're with competent players vs. other competent players, the zone is quite entertaining. It sucks for honor over time, but the battles are epic. This battleground is where an individual player's skill can really have a large impact on the outcome of the match. I play a mean druid in there if I say so myself.

Bingo. As a Feral I used to love WSG when 2 competent groups clashed.

[Pyros]

Well tbh even with 2 competent groups you can have turtling. It might not be as prevalent nowadays because you can actually gib people even when they're turtling, but back in the days I remember that pretty much no class could gib a pve prot warrior carrying the flag with 3healers on him, but AP mages, so you had to wait on cooldowns everytime you wanted to go. Oh and the whole shamans vs paladins. Shamans were much better in very lively games because thye could pick the flag up and ghost wolf it, but damn paladins were so brutal when turtling since you couldn't actually take them out of the picture easily(old sacrifice ^^).

Overall I have very good memories of the BG though, for like 3months after its release. Since then it has been mostly shit though. On my DK, which I've been playing since wrath, I got all the bg achievements during that valentine even shit(or another I forgot), I had never done any bg before that, and I haven't done any since then. I just can't do this shit anymore.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Lusiphur

People have been begging for this for years. Win in 30 mins or the team with the most caps wins. A draw = tough luck. Turtling alliance fuckers ...

It doesn't require Turtling. I've had 1hr+ WSG matches where both team were just very good and getting the opposing flag across midfield never happened.

I had one match that was like 1hr14minus. Broke 2 million damage done on my Pally =D This was pre exorcism pvp nerf, we were OP.

[Ronne]

So my highest character is 55 and I'm looking to get into pvp a bit. What kind of options am I looking at here? I've never leveled anyone past 49 up until this point, so all I've really done were AB and WSG, but those places were a mess in the <50 brackets when I tried them (75% comprised of rogues and hunters wearing ten times my net worth in gear enchants and bind to account weapons, fun!). Do people still do Alterac Valley? What are the level brackets now? If I level past 60 will I get lumped in with all the level 80 toons?

Also, where do warriors stand these days? I've been leveling as 100% protection, and it kicks ass for pve, but I'm kind of assuming that it's not going to be all that hot in a battleground. Is arms+2h still the way to go for warrior pvp?

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

On top of that, with the way the honor system currently works it's impossible to progress in any meaningful way in world pvp.

So? There was no progression at all in world pvp prior to BG's. You did it for the thrill of killing someone. There was no reward, ever, othen then the satisfaction of winning a fight.

Flying mounts are also not a problem. Make friends with a mage.

Yes, it is. BG's are pretty formulaic, when you've played 1 WSG, you've played them all, and I'm sure all of us have played a lot more than 1. With world PvP it's constantly shifting, different places, different classes, different group compositions, every fight is different.

Logical fallicy. Different places? The geographic changes in maps like AV/WSG/AB are just as varied as they are in 90% of the game world. The only difference is you don't have to dodge mobs. Whoopty shit.

Different classes/group compositions? That's more a fault of the ridiculous OP nature of DK's right now. I've been in so many AB's with so many different group compositions it's not even funny. The only constant factor is there will always be a shadowmelded hunter in WSG though.

99% of fights are the same in world PvP. I get caught offguard and eat dirt while stunned. I then log on my paladin, find them and make them eat dirt while they're stunned. Yay world pvp! Or we zone out after a wipe in Ulduar and curb stomp the people outside. Not much different even prior to the honor system. The only time it got even remotely interesting is when you were grouping up outside some dungeon and another group rolled up and you'd have some spontaneous 4v3 action because one of your guys was afk and 2 of theres weren't there yet. But that was a once a week occurrence at best.

And again, if you go back to my original fucking point in the first place if they had new maps every month, it wouldn't be quite as stale. That's the major failing. I enjoy playing de_dust still in CS or tc_hydro now and then in TF2, but it's the new maps that keep me playing.

Originally Posted by Torrid

Hah. Remember who you're talking to Zehn. I did win the contest winner's tabard after attaining #1 four or five weeks straight after all, which required a good 10+ hours of TMing a day.

I know, I was there. And again, TM pvp is pretty much exactly as I described it. Horde sits in TM, waits for Alliance to push, Alliance runs away because they can't handle guard spawns, Horde chases Alliance down, Alliance regroups and pushes Horde back to TM. Rinse, repeat.

Over, and over, and over, and over again. It was basically a BG at that point. It's turtling in WSG with ganking the occasional idiot that tries to grab the flag solo. I remember the Mage pushes because I was usually the priest that followed trying to heal for as long as possible. We used to do this shit in AV all the time, or do your rosy goggles there not allow you to see that? Do you not remember Szader and Fung leading with mass AoE fear charges and then us moving in and mopping up?

Or 5 of us doing that stupid goblin quest so that we could roll up to the alliance base in 5 shredders and just annihilate them.

Originally Posted by Torrid

The NPCs certainly do NOT instantly respawn, either.

They were the last time I did WG which was about two weeks ago. I got 20 kills in about 40 seconds. The middle bridge is the insta-respawn. All the others have the 2~4 minute respawn.

[Azrayne]

So? There was no progression at all in world pvp prior to BG's. You did it for the thrill of killing someone. There was no reward, ever, othen then the satisfaction of winning a fight.

Yes there was, there was a time period which I specifically referred to before BG's came out, but after the honor system, in which you could rank up in world pvp.

Flying mounts are also not a problem. Make friends with a mage.

Oh don't be obtuse, being able to knock one person off a flying mount every 30 seconds or so hardly qualifies as world pvp. I'll admit I had fun cruising around outside naxx making people plummet to their deaths while waiting for a raid to start for a few weeks, but it got old very quickly.

99% of fights are the same in world PvP. I get caught offguard and eat dirt while stunned. I then log on my paladin, find them and make them eat dirt while they're stunned. Yay world pvp! Or we zone out after a wipe in Ulduar and curb stomp the people outside. Not much different even prior to the honor system. The only time it got even remotely interesting is when you were grouping up outside some dungeon and another group rolled up and you'd have some spontaneous 4v3 action because one of your guys was afk and 2 of theres weren't there yet. But that was a once a week occurrence at best.

See that's your problem. You never actually intentionally participated in world pvp, so the only world pvp you experienced was ganking or being ganked, you were never a part of that time period in which people roamed the world intentionally looking for fights against equal opponants, and so you view it through the lense of you being ganked on your low level alts, since that's the only perception of world pvp you have.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Yes there was, there was a time period which I specifically referred to before BG's came out, but after the honor system, in which you could rank up in world pvp.

And we also had ridiculous amounts of fun when WSG/AV got released. There were days we'd start on Friday night and not stop until Sunday morning. I very much enjoyed the 48+ hour AV's with 5 horde holding out against 40 Alliance by sploiting NPC's.

Your argument basically boils down to how you wish WoW never came out because then EverQuest would still be the better game.

Oh don't be obtuse, being able to knock one person off a flying mount every 30 seconds or so hardly qualifies as world pvp.

And letting someone get far enough away to mount up and fly off hardly qualifies as the death knell of world pvp. If ganking people one at a time as they ride up to BRS/MC is your idea of world people, then sitting outside Ulduar and blast wave/safe falling people off their mount is little different.

You never actually intentionally participated in world pvp,

I'm sorry, what's your definition of world pvp? World pvp by it's very -definition- is ganking. If you're doing structured 5v5 fight nights, how is that any fucking different then 5v5 arena or doing tower defense in AV?

Occasionally I sit in dragonblight ganking some lowbies long enough for them to call in their high level friends and all the sudden we have a 1v3 or if I call in some of my own buddies it breaks out into a 4v12 (Alliance never attack unless they have a 3:1 advantage, proven fact).

Like I said, I'm not saying the random dance battles aren't fun. I'm just saying they don't function much differently then BG's. I don't suddenly lose the ability to use Lay on Hands because I'm in Arathi Basin nor do I gain the ability to summon 30 fel demons to my side because I'm in plaugelands. The tactics I use are pretty much the same. Actually there are more options in BG's because there's usually an objective. Sometimes killing people isn't as effecient as simply harassing them or drawing them away from a defense node so my group can sweep in and grab the flag.

Anyways...

Simply put if Blizzard had 2 brackets (solo/small group and premade), rewarded even matchups more then rolling pugs, created a new map layout every month or two and had 10/15/40 man versions for each map depending on the level of pvp you enjoy...it would be so much more entertaining.

3 new battlegrounds in the 4 years since they were implemented is atrocious.

[Azrayne]

And we also had ridiculous amounts of fun when WSG/AV got released. There were days we'd start on Friday night and not stop until Sunday morning. I very much enjoyed the 48+ hour AV's with 5 horde holding out against 40 Alliance by sploiting NPC's.

Oh, it was fun at first yes, but I and most people I know got sick of it in a week or two, whereas I did world pvp for months on end and never became bored.

Your argument basically boils down to how you wish WoW never came out because then EverQuest would still be the better game.

Where on earth do you get that massive leap from? Talk about reduction to absurdity.

And letting someone get far enough away to mount up and fly off hardly qualifies as the death knell of world pvp. If ganking people one at a time as they ride up to BRS/MC is your idea of world people, then sitting outside Ulduar and blast wave/safe falling people off their mount is little different.

The point is that they're all mounted in the first place. When everybody is already in the fucking sky, there's nobody to fight.

Anyway I'm not going to continue this argument because you and I obviously have vastly differing opinions on what pvp is, I'm guessing you probably come from a PvE background (hardcore EQ raider?) so in comparison to that, BG's 'would' seem like good pvp. Since my first MMO experience was DAoC (though I did play EQ on and off), my ideas of and preferences for PvP were shaped by the open roaming combat in that game, if you've never experienced that I guess it's pretty hard to understand that yes, a roaming 5v5 fight is significantly different to a 5v5 arena.

[Torrid]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

I know, I was there. And again, TM pvp is pretty much exactly as I described it. Horde sits in TM, waits for Alliance to push, Alliance runs away because they can't handle guard spawns, Horde chases Alliance down, Alliance regroups and pushes Horde back to TM. Rinse, repeat.

You described it as "90% of the time you sat your ass in TM with you thumb up your ass" which is false, unless you were a melee class. Otherwise it was a virtually non-stop exchange of fire for half the day. Rogues still did fine in contribution by ganking people who strayed too far from the crowd though. (the #1 Alliance on Hyjal was a Rogue)

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Over, and over, and over, and over again. It was basically a BG at that point. It's turtling in WSG with ganking the occasional idiot that tries to grab the flag solo. I remember the Mage pushes because I was usually the priest that followed trying to heal for as long as possible. We used to do this shit in AV all the time, or do your rosy goggles there not allow you to see that? Do you not remember Szader and Fung leading with mass AoE fear charges and then us moving in and mopping up?

What, you mean this?



It's a shame I never did capture any of the truly great AoE charges. My machine was never top of the line. Anyway...

The AV charges were never as epic as the TM ones. TM had more people, more favorable terrain, no 30 second ressing 50 yards away, etc. Of course, AV has LONG since been a race rather than an AoE fest regardless. Cross server battlegrounds killed it. I used to purposely join stalemated AVs on Hyjal to try and organize the mages and break the stalemate.

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

They were the last time I did WG which was about two weeks ago. I got 20 kills in about 40 seconds. The middle bridge is the insta-respawn. All the others have the 2~4 minute respawn.

You mean the spot in this screenshot? Well if it ever was insta-respawn, it certainly isn't anymore.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Our only real point of contention is that you feel there's something magical fighting other dudes in one part of the world over another. If TM/SS was stll the only place you could get pvp that would be boring as fuck too.

Killing people never gets old. If it did the video game industry would have failed out decades ago. The setting and how you kill them though needs to constantly change.

And my experiences come mostly from quake/TF where you're usually going up against a prepared opponent and not just lolganking nubs who were stupid enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Snugglebear]

I got sick of the TM back-and-forth faster than I got sick of the 8 hour Alterac Valleys. Alterac also had those weird little side quests you could use to get reputation for that badass weapon, the Unstoppable Force. WITH the original knockback. I guess the real downside was that the server saved at around 7 AM EST every morning, so it would kill any push. And getting people organized for an AOE push was terribad.

[Pyros]

Well the "fun" thing about old AV is you could get 10-15guild people and just tear through newbs and make insane honor(which in turn killed WSG premades and such after a bit since doing premades in AV was so much better to grind R12 or 14). I know you still can, but nowadays everyone rushes to the bases so there's no fighting, the funny part about the old AV is everyone was basically defending, so having your premade of guildmates you'd actually fight 40alliance and push their shit back in until you beat them in a terrible humiliating way. After a while that disapeared too though and the trick was avoiding the big of the alliance by going around it, then ninjaing the shit in the back and basically 5-10manning the boss, which was a fucking pushover once your tank had like 8T2.

[Zehn - Vhex]

The problem is and always will be you're awarded far more honor for winning then for fighting. At this point they should remove the split honor penalty for killing someone (everybody gets full honor), add lattices to AV so you can't advance unless you have the previous GY and completely remove honor for winning.

Bam.

[Torrid]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Our only real point of contention is that you feel there's something magical fighting other dudes in one part of the world over another. If TM/SS was stll the only place you could get pvp that would be boring as fuck too.

And my experiences come mostly from quake/TF where you're usually going up against a prepared opponent and not just lolganking nubs who were stupid enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You seem to ignore every argument favoring world pvp and equate it all as ganking. I'm both pro-world PvP and anti-ganking. I just would rather ganking be addressed with a territory capture mechanic instead of instancing.

But that is digressing from my original point which is that, as it currently is in WoW, BGs are LESS fair than the TM days ever were. Last night I was grouped with some buddies of mine -- people who were Gladiators in previous seasons -- and even with the four of us joining BGs we still struggled to win one. Shit, I think the only one we won was WSG because we made up a larger percentage of the team there.

It's funny you bring up that you're a Quake player. I've been using the Quake analogy for YEARS to describe why BGs are inherently unfair. It's ironic how the "fairness" of BGs actually makes for a more unfair system in that world PvP allowed the undermaned, undergeared faction to hide behind NPCs to help even the odds, while in instanced BGs the "fairness" of the maps allow the faction with the gear and premade advantages to destroy the other team.

All I want is a fair fight. That's all I want. Instancing is NOT providing that.

[Miele]

I'm feeling an itch to play my shaman again, resto main spec, elemental to grind around or eventually switch in raids, currently stuck at 74.
Just to know from level 80s, do shaman have troubles healing in Naxx and Ulduar (more thinking about 10 players raid, but may also pug 25s), especially in terms of mana consumption and AE healing, or are they doing fine?

Can they be MT healers or they suck? I'm aware other classes may do better, I was wondering if others did it in the last few months and how they fared.