Final Fantasy XIV - Page 37

Draegan · 08-31-2009, 01:58 PM

This game when from interesting to /facepalm.

Haruhi · 08-31-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darvain

Could you guys STFU about jumping...

No!

Yeah, it's been a long debate discussing the merits of jumping in an mmorpg, but I still can't make up my mind after considering arguments for or against it.

To be honest, I'm more swayed by the pro jumping points, because I tried to recall my experiences with no jumping in XI and the feeling that rushes back to me when doing so is frustration. This is subjective, of course, but if we go for a more rational argument, I'd offer that eliminating jumping does not create more compelling dungeons.

It doesn't seem like it would eliminate a lot of design complications either. Also it looks like officially eliminating the feature doesn't mean players won't find ways of doing it anyways.

Recall reading there was a program which allowed people to jump across some obstacles? Memory is faint now, but I swear I read some complaints about this hacking tool being used to claim some raid mobs back in the day. Something about a notorious monster surrounded by those ledges you can't jump over (if you take a shortcut) being accessed much faster by players using the tool, because they could just take the quick run and jump to the mob.

I'm sure that, if the ban hammer is as swift as the recent interviews have us thinking, they will catch that, but I'd say that's dumb to waste resources on medicating this problem when it could be eliminated altogether by allowing everyone to do it.

And to bring up another topic - though not exactly a new one, because dev and player communication issues has already been done here - I just thought it would be great (though very unlikely) if one of their devs/hirilings started posting here. Someone, please, make that happen!

I think that would drive the FF loonies, who think the vision must be respected, crazy, 'cos it seems as if the general trend here is to be against blind fanboism concerning this game.

TKarrde · 08-31-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haruhi

No!

Yeah, it's been a long debate discussing the merits of jumping in an mmorpg, but I still can't make up my mind after considering arguments for or against it.

To be honest, I'm more swayed by the pro jumping points, because I tried to recall my experiences with no jumping in XI and the feeling that rushes back to me when doing so is frustration. This is subjective, of course, but if we go for a more rational argument, I'd offer that eliminating jumping does not create more compelling dungeons.

It doesn't seem like it would eliminate a lot of design complications either. Also it looks like officially eliminating the feature doesn't mean players won't find ways of doing it anyways.

Recall reading there was a program which allowed people to jump across some obstacles? Memory is faint now, but I swear I read some complaints about this hacking tool being used to claim some raid mobs back in the day. Something about a notorious monster surrounded by those ledges you can't jump over (if you take a shortcut) being accessed much faster by players using the tool, because they could just take the quick run and jump to the mob.

I'm sure that, if the ban hammer is as swift as the recent interviews have us thinking, they will catch that, but I'd say that's dumb to waste resources on medicating this problem when it could be eliminated altogether by allowing everyone to do it.

And to bring up another topic - though not exactly a new one, because dev and player communication issues has already been done here - I just thought it would be great (though very unlikely) if one of their devs/hirilings started posting here. Someone, please, make that happen!

I think that would drive the FF loonies, who think the vision must be respected, crazy, 'cos it seems as if the general trend here is to be against blind fanboism concerning this game.

They'd just make the ledges higher, and the hack would just let the hackers jump higher.

Fammaden · 08-31-2009, 05:26 PM

FFXI really did have some good dungeon maps. So did EQ. Say what you want about EQ, and often you would be right to criticize, but those maps are how I think an RPG dungeon should be. WoW's instances, though fun, don't even compare to those games in terms of the maps.

Haruhi · 08-31-2009, 05:49 PM

I cannot argue with you that many dungeons were pretty fun (either in FFXI or EQ.) I just find the idea that the dungeons were great because you could not jump hard to sell.

Someone brought up Garlaige Citatel earlier, which is a dungeon I remember spending some time in before quitting and found enjoyable. The thing is I don't remember thinking this was a great dungeon because I could not jump over the various holes on the floor, but because it had great atmosphere and an interesting back story.

If I remember correctly, the place looked all bombed to death - hence the numerous holes throughout - due to something that happened during the great war? Some Elvans(?) were trapped there and nuked (by tarutarus?)with magic or something?

When coming across this peculiar aspect of the dungeon, you were forced to avoid the drop. I'd rather be compelled to remember those holes were there and leap over them.

Both actions are just preventative measures to avoid falling down into that undead pit, but it feels more natural, to me anyways, to jump instead of walking around it.

Quince · 08-31-2009, 08:51 PM

Hay guies, did anyone mention anything about if we are able to jump in this game......

(lights self on fire and jumps out a 20 story window)

Pyros · 08-31-2009, 09:01 PM

Jump is for losers, we need crouching used in a mmo, getting below traps and small holes in the walls.

Vinen · 08-31-2009, 09:15 PM

Have any of you taken into consideration that there may have been a technical reason to remove jumping from FFXI. The game was released on the PS2 for Christ sakes. Yes, other games like EQOA (I assume) had jumping but god; the shit they pulled off with the PS2 hardware was pretty damn impressive.

I do hope FF14 has jumping, if not just because I have jumping ADHD in WoW to the point people chain levitate me to get me to stop-

There is only one place where not being able to jump pissed me off. Fucking Dragon's Aery... jesus fucking christ-

Senen · 08-31-2009, 09:20 PM

I defently hate the feel of how a game plays that doesn't include jump. As for dungeon design in general every game out has some great ones to remember. For me EQ had, Guk, Sol A/b, Velks, Seb, VP, just to name a few that I realy though had some depth to them. Also in WoW, all of Blackrock how it was interelocked and tiered was probly one of there best dungeon systems ever. From that point on most of the dungeons they released were never of that scope and duration to clear. And for Pyros, DDO had what your talking about there. They realy had some great dungeon designs later in the game that realy tested a good grp vs a retarded grp. Problem there was the game as a whole felt small being tied to one city with some minor out lying areas. When it realy wasn't that small, but it was hard to get people passed that point in the traditional MMO sense. My concerns with the new FF game are the UI has to make sense. If they mess this area up again like FFXI's piss poor UI system and fail to localize the game to the Western market properly. I doub't I'll give another of there games a second thought.

Tullaeniel · 08-31-2009, 09:27 PM

Did someone say jumping?

Quince · 08-31-2009, 10:57 PM

God that pic cracks me up every time i see it. It's Rodney Dangerfield at age 17.

dorfeater · 09-01-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quince

God that pic cracks me up every time i see it. It's Rodney Dangerfield at age 17.

Doing a Flying Monkey Dragon Kick.

Toxxulian · 09-01-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinen

Have any of you taken into consideration that there may have been a technical reason to remove jumping from FFXI. The game was released on the PS2 for Christ sakes. Yes, other games like EQOA (I assume) had jumping but god; the shit they pulled off with the PS2 hardware was pretty damn impressive.

I do hope FF14 has jumping, if not just because I have jumping ADHD in WoW to the point people chain levitate me to get me to stop-

There is only one place where not being able to jump pissed me off. Fucking Dragon's Aery... jesus fucking christ-

EQoA did not have jumping. Both EQoA and FFXI were my first mmos so i never really knew what i was "missing" until WoW. Honestly I wouldn't not get a mmo just because it didn't have jumping. I think it really has to do with your gaming past though.

Zehn - Vhex · 09-01-2009, 12:19 PM

It's not a deal breaker in and of itself but it's just 'one of those things.' It's like playing an FPS that doesn't like you rebind your keymappings. Sure you don't really ~need~ it but in this day and age, why the fuck would you leave it out?

The Ancient · 09-01-2009, 12:31 PM

That Super Mario was a hell of a jumper.

08-31-2009, 01:58 PM	#541 (permalink)
Draegan ҉̵̞̟̠̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟̠͇̊̋̌̍̎ ̏ Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,246 -8 Internets	This game when from interesting to /facepalm. __________________ i type stuff at rerollz.com

08-31-2009, 05:26 PM	#544 (permalink)
Fammaden Treats objects like women. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Posts: 3,488 +43 Internets	FFXI really did have some good dungeon maps. So did EQ. Say what you want about EQ, and often you would be right to criticize, but those maps are how I think an RPG dungeon should be. WoW's instances, though fun, don't even compare to those games in terms of the maps. __________________ Fammaden - Wizard - Saryrn (Retired) WoW: Shaman/Mage/Hunter/Druid

08-31-2009, 09:15 PM	#548 (permalink)
Vinen Open the eyes Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Not in fucking Acton, MA anymore! Posts: 4,372 -54 Internets	Have any of you taken into consideration that there may have been a technical reason to remove jumping from FFXI. The game was released on the PS2 for Christ sakes. Yes, other games like EQOA (I assume) had jumping but god; the shit they pulled off with the PS2 hardware was pretty damn impressive. I do hope FF14 has jumping, if not just because I have jumping ADHD in WoW to the point people chain levitate me to get me to stop- There is only one place where not being able to jump pissed me off. Fucking Dragon's Aery... jesus fucking christ- __________________ Vinna, Balance Druid Veena, Fury Warrior Len, Elyos Chanter of Vaziel Sean: Different attacks do different shit Last edited by Vinen; 08-31-2009 at 09:20 PM..

08-31-2009, 09:27 PM	#550 (permalink)
Tullaeniel Bill Clinton Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 613 +11 Internets	Did someone say jumping? __________________ Now you know and knowing is half the battle. GO JOE!!!

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08-31-2009, 05:49 PM	#545 (permalink)
Haruhi Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 115	I cannot argue with you that many dungeons were pretty fun (either in FFXI or EQ.) I just find the idea that the dungeons were great because you could not jump hard to sell. Someone brought up Garlaige Citatel earlier, which is a dungeon I remember spending some time in before quitting and found enjoyable. The thing is I don't remember thinking this was a great dungeon because I could not jump over the various holes on the floor, but because it had great atmosphere and an interesting back story. If I remember correctly, the place looked all bombed to death - hence the numerous holes throughout - due to something that happened during the great war? Some Elvans(?) were trapped there and nuked (by tarutarus?)with magic or something? When coming across this peculiar aspect of the dungeon, you were forced to avoid the drop. I'd rather be compelled to remember those holes were there and leap over them. Both actions are just preventative measures to avoid falling down into that undead pit, but it feels more natural, to me anyways, to jump instead of walking around it.

08-31-2009, 08:51 PM	#546 (permalink)
Quince The hammer is my penis. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 298 -24 Internets	Hay guies, did anyone mention anything about if we are able to jump in this game...... (lights self on fire and jumps out a 20 story window)

08-31-2009, 09:01 PM	#547 (permalink)
Pyros Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,561 +42 Internets	Jump is for losers, we need crouching used in a mmo, getting below traps and small holes in the walls.

08-31-2009, 09:20 PM	#549 (permalink)
Senen Old School ! Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 804	I defently hate the feel of how a game plays that doesn't include jump. As for dungeon design in general every game out has some great ones to remember. For me EQ had, Guk, Sol A/b, Velks, Seb, VP, just to name a few that I realy though had some depth to them. Also in WoW, all of Blackrock how it was interelocked and tiered was probly one of there best dungeon systems ever. From that point on most of the dungeons they released were never of that scope and duration to clear. And for Pyros, DDO had what your talking about there. They realy had some great dungeon designs later in the game that realy tested a good grp vs a retarded grp. Problem there was the game as a whole felt small being tied to one city with some minor out lying areas. When it realy wasn't that small, but it was hard to get people passed that point in the traditional MMO sense. My concerns with the new FF game are the UI has to make sense. If they mess this area up again like FFXI's piss poor UI system and fail to localize the game to the Western market properly. I doub't I'll give another of there games a second thought.

08-31-2009, 10:57 PM	#551 (permalink)
Quince The hammer is my penis. Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 298 -24 Internets	God that pic cracks me up every time i see it. It's Rodney Dangerfield at age 17.

09-01-2009, 12:19 PM	#554 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 9,543 +207 Internets	It's not a deal breaker in and of itself but it's just 'one of those things.' It's like playing an FPS that doesn't like you rebind your keymappings. Sure you don't really ~need~ it but in this day and age, why the fuck would you leave it out?