Final Fantasy XIV - Page 35

Zarcath · 08-29-2009, 07:45 PM

no jumping in an mmo almost a deal breaker for me.

Azrayne · 08-29-2009, 08:38 PM

I'd say it comes close to. It just feels so awkward and restrictive, and there's no logical reason to not put it in.

Zehn - Vhex · 08-29-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haruhi

Another interview to take our minds out of the no jumping issue:

Promising. I'm not exactly fond of the concept of just using an ability a lot to level it up since it usually ends up just being me trying to find something to exploit it on. Guildleves are basically just quests in FF right? If that's the main way to get new abilities hopefully they can make those more interesting then "Go kill X!" a bunch of times.

Pizoi · 08-30-2009, 03:10 AM

The no jumping thing didn't really bother me much in FFXI after the first few hours, I imagine this game will be the same. It will just make it easier for the area designers to stop people from exploiting the geography to bypass this and that, which isn't a bad thing.

Just let the OCD jumpbots (myself included) do cartwheels or something to amuse ourselves.

Azrayne · 08-30-2009, 03:13 AM

Except that having to run around a knee high brick wall is fucking retarded

Zehn - Vhex · 08-30-2009, 03:17 AM

No shit. If your design is so goddamn awful that you need to disable jumping to prevent players from exploiting geometry, then you might as well just chomp down on a big mouthful of oxyclean and end it all.

Elidrin · 08-30-2009, 03:29 AM

The one good thing about no jumping in FFXI, no fall damage! :|

TKarrde · 08-30-2009, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

No shit. If your design is so goddamn awful that you need to disable jumping to prevent players from exploiting geometry, then you might as well just chomp down on a big mouthful of oxyclean and end it all.

Like vanilla WoW and Kazzak?

dorfeater · 08-30-2009, 09:25 AM

If they don't have to worry about things like geometry, jumping, and the possible bugs/exploits that gives them more focus on other aspects of the game to (hopefully) make it actually good.

- Jumping but + Other emphasis on design? Yeah.. fuck jumping.

Now.. if they just leave jumping out because they're too lazy to puts with the geometry.. that's a whole different thing.

However, not being able to walk up a knee high "cliff" or ridge.. yeah, that's lame. Fix that crap, don't keep us in a cage maaan. But jump isn't a dealbreaker for me.

Besides, until they can start doing epic ass D&D shit in MMO's with things like D&D Online wanted to do and jumping over stuff Indiana Jones style in dungeons.. a Jump button is just something to show how bored you are.

Guzrog · 08-30-2009, 09:52 AM

If jumping is that important to you go check out Fusion Fall

My kid's Cartoon Network based MMO - they have full timed obstacle courses to get you to boss instances with rotating platforms and jump pads and shit. Thought it was pretty amusing that a kid's web based MMO has more challenging "moving in a 3D space stuff" than any other MMO on the market today. (To my knowledge.)

Cybsled · 08-30-2009, 10:37 AM

City of Heroes still wins in the jump category ;P

Zehn - Vhex · 08-30-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKarrde

Like vanilla WoW and Kazzak?

Exactly. Kazzak was so goddamn exploitable in so many ways Blizzard didn't need to completely gut the game just to fix them all. I mean, if they took the FFxi solution they would have removed paladins completely rather then just fixing the reckoning bomb sploit.

Treesong · 08-31-2009, 12:19 AM

Imagine running quests in Elwynn Forest, and not being able to jump over the fences of all the farms there, but instead having to walk around them everytime. That would have been so cheesy. Not only that, but I like to imagine I am doing a steeplechase, makes all the running around more palatable.

If an engine does not allow a character to jump, then the landscape and world will be built around that. Imo, zone design would suffer for it. For me this is typically one of the many things that WoW has done right.

Savor · 08-31-2009, 02:43 AM

Though people have touched on the jump topic, somewhat, I don't think the pros of the FFXI environments have been emphasized enough:

Zones in FFXI, dungeon and otherwise, were mostly insane mazes. That isn't to say that you didn't learn them, though. EQ was the same way; memorizing landmarks and all that. If jump was in the game (XI), it's doubtful that the dungeon designs would have been so incredibly elaborate. Getting around wasn't trivial, in most cases, so the player felt much more accomplished upon reaching their destination. This also made the layouts that much more immersive and dangerous.

Without jump in the equation, it's much easier to define "paths." On the flipside, I'll admit, Square gave players the cock whenever they'd put those one inch high fucking fences to keep you out of an area that you could plainly see.

Don't get me wrong, I lurb some strafe jump action. I'm just saying that WoW has never had a zone that came close to the complexity of the FFXI zones.

Zehn - Vhex · 08-31-2009, 03:10 AM

You know, you're totally right. If WoW removed jumping from the game their dungeons would become immediately much more complex and immersive without needing to change anything else.

How could I have been so blind. Clearly it has nothing to do with design philosophy, game world size and the existence of mapping and minimap functions that make WoW dungeons easier to navigate and much less interesting.

It's entirely because I can jump. I'm going to go get on the batphone with Chilton and Kaplan and the rest of the bunch and let them know the genius solution to their bland dungeons. Remove jumping! Who would have thought it would be so simple.

08-29-2009, 07:45 PM	#511 (permalink)
Zarcath is a little tea pot. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 6,465 +75 Internets	no jumping in an mmo almost a deal breaker for me. __________________

08-30-2009, 03:29 AM	#517 (permalink)
Elidrin Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 556	The one good thing about no jumping in FFXI, no fall damage! :\| __________________ Avelle Midgardsormr Avelle < Risen > Ner'Zhul - Retired Elidrin 65 Ranger Lanys T'Vyl - Retired

08-30-2009, 10:37 AM	#521 (permalink)
Cybsled Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 10,286 +49 Internets	City of Heroes still wins in the jump category ;P __________________ Training the citizens of Norrath from 1999-2003!

08-31-2009, 02:43 AM	#524 (permalink)
Savor Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	Though people have touched on the jump topic, somewhat, I don't think the pros of the FFXI environments have been emphasized enough: Zones in FFXI, dungeon and otherwise, were mostly insane mazes. That isn't to say that you didn't learn them, though. EQ was the same way; memorizing landmarks and all that. If jump was in the game (XI), it's doubtful that the dungeon designs would have been so incredibly elaborate. Getting around wasn't trivial, in most cases, so the player felt much more accomplished upon reaching their destination. This also made the layouts that much more immersive and dangerous. Without jump in the equation, it's much easier to define "paths." On the flipside, I'll admit, Square gave players the cock whenever they'd put those one inch high fucking fences to keep you out of an area that you could plainly see. Don't get me wrong, I lurb some strafe jump action. I'm just saying that WoW has never had a zone that came close to the complexity of the FFXI zones. __________________ Savor - Nurfed

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08-29-2009, 08:38 PM	#512 (permalink)
Azrayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Awsome Posts: 2,727	I'd say it comes close to. It just feels so awkward and restrictive, and there's no logical reason to not put it in.

08-30-2009, 03:10 AM	#514 (permalink)
Pizoi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 642	The no jumping thing didn't really bother me much in FFXI after the first few hours, I imagine this game will be the same. It will just make it easier for the area designers to stop people from exploiting the geography to bypass this and that, which isn't a bad thing. Just let the OCD jumpbots (myself included) do cartwheels or something to amuse ourselves.

08-30-2009, 03:13 AM	#515 (permalink)
Azrayne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Awsome Posts: 2,727	Except that having to run around a knee high brick wall is fucking retarded

08-30-2009, 03:17 AM	#516 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,803 +166 Internets	No shit. If your design is so goddamn awful that you need to disable jumping to prevent players from exploiting geometry, then you might as well just chomp down on a big mouthful of oxyclean and end it all.

08-30-2009, 09:25 AM	#519 (permalink)
dorfeater Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 45 -5 Internets	If they don't have to worry about things like geometry, jumping, and the possible bugs/exploits that gives them more focus on other aspects of the game to (hopefully) make it actually good. - Jumping but + Other emphasis on design? Yeah.. fuck jumping. Now.. if they just leave jumping out because they're too lazy to puts with the geometry.. that's a whole different thing. However, not being able to walk up a knee high "cliff" or ridge.. yeah, that's lame. Fix that crap, don't keep us in a cage maaan. But jump isn't a dealbreaker for me. Besides, until they can start doing epic ass D&D shit in MMO's with things like D&D Online wanted to do and jumping over stuff Indiana Jones style in dungeons.. a Jump button is just something to show how bored you are.

08-30-2009, 09:52 AM	#520 (permalink)
Guzrog My wallet is in the bag. Join Date: May 2002 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 376 +11 Internets	If jumping is that important to you go check out Fusion Fall My kid's Cartoon Network based MMO - they have full timed obstacle courses to get you to boss instances with rotating platforms and jump pads and shit. Thought it was pretty amusing that a kid's web based MMO has more challenging "moving in a 3D space stuff" than any other MMO on the market today. (To my knowledge.)

08-31-2009, 12:19 AM	#523 (permalink)
Treesong Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 129 +11 Internets	Imagine running quests in Elwynn Forest, and not being able to jump over the fences of all the farms there, but instead having to walk around them everytime. That would have been so cheesy. Not only that, but I like to imagine I am doing a steeplechase, makes all the running around more palatable. If an engine does not allow a character to jump, then the landscape and world will be built around that. Imo, zone design would suffer for it. For me this is typically one of the many things that WoW has done right.

08-31-2009, 03:10 AM	#525 (permalink)
Zehn - Vhex Lord of the Dance Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,803 +166 Internets	You know, you're totally right. If WoW removed jumping from the game their dungeons would become immediately much more complex and immersive without needing to change anything else. How could I have been so blind. Clearly it has nothing to do with design philosophy, game world size and the existence of mapping and minimap functions that make WoW dungeons easier to navigate and much less interesting. It's entirely because I can jump. I'm going to go get on the batphone with Chilton and Kaplan and the rest of the bunch and let them know the genius solution to their bland dungeons. Remove jumping! Who would have thought it would be so simple.