Rift: Planes of Telara (Heroes of Telara), and E3 '09

[Greyform]

Originally Posted by James

It couldn't make less sense if he had said it in Aramaic. That's basically the worst reason given for no LFG tool ever. This makes Blizzard's reason for not including one at release look downright sane and welcomed, by comparison.

I agree, that reasoning is insane. "people won't use it after 6 weeks" yeah I guess if the system just doesn't work. But how in the hell does he think every player in a level range spamming a single channel for a group is better?

Smacks of releasing a game that isn't ready and slapping BS excuses for it early.

Yeah people still use chat channels even if there is a LFG function, but that's not because they don't use the tool. It's because they're trying to draw attention to their group.

A good LFG tool needs to get players in a group and in one place quickly. It's not rocket science but it still needs to be there at launch..

[Eonan]

RDF has its place, I think everyone can agree on that. I couldn't believe that he said "most people use them for a week or two then stop..." he must not of been referring to WoW's system at all, or has not experienced it(?). I'd love to see the numbers from Blizzard about instance load before and after the release of the RDF. I'm willing to bet internets that its at least gone up by 100% and has remained pretty damn close to that. Hell thats just for the heroic dungeons, how often did you find groups pugging their way through fucking Deadmines or Gnomeregan before that shit was released?

[Grave]

Yeah, it really blows my mind the more I think about it.

Future MMOs should not only be making sure they can implement RDF, but should be thinking about more ways to utilize it/base gameplay around it being used.

Imagine a game where it isn't only used for dungeons, but every single outdoor zone also had special instanced versions of itself where epic group quests and scripted events took place? Do that with your friends or just hop on the LFG tool when you want run through it. The possibilities for that are endless.

[Zehn - Vhex]

Even fucking Global Agenda has dungeon finder. It could not be simpler. It takes all the guesswork and legwork out and let's you just focus on having fun. The -only- shortcoming to the WoW LFG system is you can't queue up with a character you're not playing. If I'm going to spend 20 minutes in the queue I'd like to be able to play an alt or twink while I wait.

[DMK]

WoW this is insane. I cant believe he used that retarded reason. The RDF is one of the best things WoW ever introduced period. I never did fucken dungeons unless i had to and i had a spare fucken 4hours (which i barely do coz my missus is the MMO hitler)

The RDF is a MUST in all MMO's from here on in. Not only is it a feature that should be part of every MMO, it should be improved.

Improvements like:
People with around the same experience can group together
Example: I'm uber leet and have uber leet gear please dont let me group with the tank that has never done a dungeon before.

Timed queues:
Hey I'm gonna be home at 4:00, I'd like to queue for 4:15 if im not there 5 mins before i get removed from the line. (something along those lines)

Queue from any character for any character (As Zehn said)
The amount of times I've sat around in Dalaran and waited 15-20mins (dps) when i could be mucking around on an alt.

More Specific Queuing
I want this achievement, Fast run/slow run/alt run/I'm a noob run.

Anyway you get my drift. There's so many ways to improve the system i cant believe it wasn't more of focus for them.

Yeah yeah they were focusing on more important features. Sorry but some things should be stock standard with every MMO released these days, RFD is one of them. I'm still pumped for the game and will definitely try it, but seriuosly...

[Muligan]

I don't think the actual tool being absent is near as telling as someone mentioned earlier that they must be crunching now. Sounds like its time to start cutting some of the bells and whistles.

Honestly, outside of RDF, nothing has really been very effective. Besides, if you have guilds (guild channel) and a tight community you already know who or what you're looking for....

Just because of my old habits in EQ, I still search using some of the commands listed earlier.

We'll see what this really means for Rift all too soon.

[Linus]

Can anyone, anywhere, explain to me what was wrong with /lfg ?

I think it was pretty much the perfect implementation.

[Uriel]

Copy DDOs LFG system please.

[Valderen]

What he said that even with lfg tools, people don't use them because for long because nobody wants to take the initiative to start a group. So they aren't gonna bother with that.

He hinted that they might eventually...at release or later get an automatic group making tool like the wow dungeon finder. Something that forms a group without people having to actually start one. It just automatically put people together in a group.

Having said that, they probably have some time after release to make such a tool. While would be useful to do leveling dungeons. I think it will be essential at the endgame when running dungeons is something that will be happening on a daily basis.

I don't personally care to be honest though, since I already have 4 friends who will be playing with me, like we have been doing since EQ1.

[Robxiii]

Originally Posted by Valderen

nobody wants to take the initiative to start a group. So they aren't gonna bother with that.

I don't know what it is with MMOs, but even since the EQ1 days, I too have been far too lazy to start a group, either that or like RL I enjoy shunning responsibility; if the PUG fails, I don't want people to think my groups always blow.

How many dungeons will this game have at release? I agree 100% that this tool should be in MMOs from here on out, but I'm not averse to hanging out near dungeons, like I did at the entrance to Sebilis back in the day. Wait, yes I am. I hated those days, god forbid you were an unwanted class. Though the class problem should mostly be eliminated in RIFT.

[Greyform]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Even fucking Global Agenda has dungeon finder. It could not be simpler. It takes all the guesswork and legwork out and let's you just focus on having fun. The -only- shortcoming to the WoW LFG system is you can't queue up with a character you're not playing. If I'm going to spend 20 minutes in the queue I'd like to be able to play an alt or twink while I wait.

I guess it just doesn't make sense to me that a LFG tool wasn't something someone thought about when they decided they were going to make an MMO. To say a few months before your planned release you don't want to half ass one sounds like you don't understand the meaning of MMO.

Getting your player base together quickly and conveniently should have been higher on their priority list.

Wish more of you would visit their official forums. I'm getting hammered by the sycophants who would rather kiss ass for a beta slot than talk about actual mistakes made by this dev team.

[Gallenite]

Originally Posted by Eonan

RDF has its place, I think everyone can agree on that. I couldn't believe that he said "most people use them for a week or two then stop..." he must not of been referring to WoW's system at all

Correct -- I was not referring to WoW's system at all. What I said (or thought I said) was:

After having shipped two LFG systems (EQ1's and EQ2's), unless they are full on "We form the group for you" like LFD does, people play with them for a little while, then they go mostly unused. I imagine that WoW's pre-LFD tool saw the same result. Those kinds of tools are just not worth the effort, no matter how many people (myself included) have fond memories of either or both them.

People then flag up and use chat channels, since that's the place they can guarantee everyone is.

Given the choice "Chat + a flag" or "LFD" - I would prefer LFD, but I can be 100% certain that we can ship "chat + a flag."

If we can ship something that removes the psychological barrier of one person having to step up and actually get the group formed? Bonus.

The downside of being honest with people includes not promising things that we're not positive about.

Sometimes that earns heat, and I can definitely accept that. All in all, I'll still take that over selling vapor.

[Eonan]

Word...thanks for the clarification. And yes...WoW's initial LFG system was a gigantic bag of fail.

[Draegan]

Outside a full blown WOW LFD system, chat+flags is still decent enough. It's better than Meeting Stones anyway, then again everything is.

[Grave]

I'm happy enough with flags as long as we can easily sort them like on EQ1.

So on this topic, can you answer how you'll handle the channel used for LFG?

WoW is designed such that the best channel to use is Trade, so much so that that is the only channel ever used for anything from idle chatter to guild recruitment to LFG/LFM. A lot of people find this annoying, and yet it is understandable that it occurred.

Is Rift tackling this in a different way?

I sort of miss the days of user created channels that became known on EQ, but I understand that can be a barrier for new players who don't quite understand the concept or wouldn't know to /join market without being told.