New Flagship Project from SOE?

[Tenks]

Originally Posted by Faelor

And to just get it off my chest...

I would kill for an offensive and defensive target system, in whatever game they are developing.

Can I get an amen?!

AMEN BROTHER HALLELUYAH AMEN

[Darph]

Hmm.

I wonder how well a prequel would work, if the "prequelity" (add that one to the dictionary Mr. Webster) was very short and it immediately threw you into the original world of Everquest, walking you through the lore of the old world, but allowing you to experience it in a better designed way.

The vision in my head looks something like this.

My EQ3, true to the original, has a separate starting city for each race. Also true to the original, each city has a unique backdrop, with a setting and story, but we would innovate in the story telling area, to lead players through a journey. A lore-driven adventure that starts with your entrance into the world and leads up to a climactic conquest of the local dungeon. Afterwards, your story begins to overlap with other races, based primarily on the continent youre in, leading up to a continental story arch. Onwards, you go through a story line for each group of levels that ends at whatever dungeon is appropriate for that range. The goal is to create an expansive world, with a compelling but slightly linear story that drives you all the way up to the raiding game.

Another tenant of my vision is that the game has a PLETHORA of content, and requires progression (See EQ- Combine server) to unlock various teirs of it. Being that this is essentially a re-hash of the original EQ I'm Pretty sure we could fit in the first couple of expansions even.

Unlike EQ2, which had an impersonal "refugee island." Our adventure starts in the heart of old Norrath, rich with lore, wonder and nostalgia.

I've already gone over some of the concepts, so let's have a first person play-by play, just a "one-beer" walk through. I'll be making this up as I go.

You start off as, let's say, a Wood Elf Bard. You launch the game, see the awesome cinematic and start to create your character who looks, simply, like an updated version of the original EQ's Wood Elf (see Half Life to Half Life 2 to see how this is done properly.) The background music is a nostalgic remake of the original score (EQ2 did a decent job of this for the theme, but skipped the rest of the amazing music.)

The minute long narrative teases you with a backdrop for our adventure. It talks about your people's city in the trees, as well as about your brethren in Felwithe. It talks about your place in the city, and how you, as a member of the Bard Guild, use your music to warm hearts and stir souls. It also warns of the dangers of the forest, and the local tribe of Crushbone Orcs who are raiding the city almost Daily.

The cut-scene finishes and you find yourself in the treetops. It's nighttime and you've been awakened by the sounds of fighting.

A voice-overed guard captain tells you to hurry down to help the troops stop a night time raid. This is a scripted single player event, much like at the start of any normal video game.

You hop (or fall) down to the brawl. The guards call out to you, applauding you to sing your Chant of Battle to aid them (If you were a Cleric, you'd heal or buff them.) A small tool tip pops up telling you how, and then quickly fades out. You press 3. Bam, you've completed your first mini-quest (and you didn't even have to click through any dialog windows).

You're beating down Orcs and buffing your allies while being taught a bit of combat basics and how to play your class, and earning experience from these mini-quests.

An NPC "Cleric" shows up, healing you and others, while you all dig into the melee. This exposes you to other classes and their relationship to your group's needs.

The Orcs dissipate into the night. Ding! You've leveled and completed your first adventure. Your Bard guild-master conveniently shows up to ensure that you're guided further up the degrees(levels) of the bard guild.

He also sends you on to your next adventure, which explains the lore of the Crushbone Orcs, their history and some of their activities as of late.

You, through class-specific means (charm or spying perhaps), come to discover that they're meeting with a certain Ambassador D'vinn, a Drow.

The plot thickens!

So, before finishing these initial, and somewhat single player, adventures, you'll have:

• A good hunk of the core essentials of your classes skills/spells
• A solid understanding of how to play your class
• A small introduction to other classes and how they aid in parties
• A healthy interest in the local lore - not to mention the rumors of what's going on elsewhere in the world.

Back to the game!

Your first storyline climaxes as you start on the Crushbone invasion campaign.

Now, this beer is almost finished and unfortunately I can't decide exactly on what I want from Crushbone other than for it to look like the original and require a significant amount of social interaction so I'll leave that up to you chaps.

Chapter 2, A new Beer.

After conquering Crushbone, or perhaps during it* your story line begins to branch out into the "Continental" story arch. Perhaps you visit the Faeries of Lesser Faydark, where you encounter a Gnome NPC or better yet a Gnome player. Now Imagine seeing a Gnome (even a player) for the first time and a quest entry enters your journal, prompting you onto another story arc to learn more about them, visit their city, and maybe even engage in their struggle against Meldrath.

During this you encounter Dwarves and perhaps youre prompted to learn more about them as well, and to engage in their struggle against Corflunk, Goblins and the Skeletons at the chessboard. During this time you begin to hear talk about Mayong Mistmoore, but the story at this level is driving everyone towards Unrest, the continental story arc for this level.

You get your Dorf work boots and hop on the boatskie towards Freeport. Now your story is pushing you towards the other races of the world, who will be present in your next quest/story hub.

You go through these lines until level 50 and now your story compels you forward into Nagafen's lair.

You, assuming you're awesome like me, kill Nagafen, Vox and Phil unlocking world events that play out over the next few weeks, unlocking either the OG planes of Fear and Hate or opening the world to Kunark. These stories lead to Veshaan's Peak, which opens the world to Velious, which is the epitome of the game at release.

TADA.

Anyways, my only concerns and things I would consider revising are these:

• Potentially saving the plains of Hate and Fear for the max lvl.
• 10 Levels of good Kunark content? Hmm.
• Allow basic AA points after Vox/Nag dies while the server is doing world events and such.

Originally Posted by Grave

I have the midis on my PC. It's insane that those little dinky melodies can incite such strong memories and feelings.

"Bridge (didnt see it on there)" and "Akanon" are my favorites, but there are a lot of other awesome tracks, such as Mystery, It's amazing how expressive the original EQ music was, even tho it was a shitty Midi.

The first song in this video.

Originally Posted by Grave

For example, the direction I took Freeport is vastly different than the dark and evil one in EQ2. Mine is more of a neutral trade city like in EQ1, but it's gone even more in that direction. All races are accepted there and it's kind of this trading and travel hub where you might see all manner of creatures.

I hate Dalaran and Shittrath.

EQ cities were cool because they were HUGE with lots of ways to get lost in them. Stuff was hidden. Rogue guilds were shady and hard as shit to find at first. Necro guilds were creepy and you often found yourself dead for accidentally finding one.

Originally Posted by Genjiro

Hopefully Scott's working hard on getting the rights to produce Shadowrun Online.

I'd cream my pants, then cream them some more.

I sent Scott an email to see if he has anything he can say about what he's working on (He's most likely under NDA.)

[Zehn - Vhex]

Originally Posted by Darph

Hmm.

You pretty much just described LotRO.

[XadionDarkborn]

Honestly I feel there is a market for a more vanilla EQ- with the "annoyances" - VG failed because...well...why play it when there is EQ2? or WoW...but we fail to see the activeness of EQLive currently- this game would be for those people, and for us who are tired of WoW- I honestly only play wow because of my RL friends and wife being on it- my wife likes EQ2 better as do I- but she cant kill orcs AND girl-chat gossip because everyones in fucking WoW- that is what has WoW win, its pure numbers- yet at the same time I bet half those pure numbers would gladly switch.

Turn off the EQ servers, turn off EQ2 servers turn off Vanguard servers- present us with this new alternative - to everything.

Bards yes!

Monks - yes but keep them all within their respective selves- sorry but I thought the weight cap and better with no weapons thing of the monk gave them personality and depth.

[Tenks]

I would instantly subscribe to any MMORPG that implemented the bard like WoW's April fool's day joke said they were going to (ie: ala a guitar hero game to cast songs)

[Lenaldo]

Don't people at SoE still read these boards?

Original EQ with some much needed changes like quests(perhaps not as many as WoWs) and a smart design(IE start with solo only quests until lvl 15ish.. then maybe implement some 2 or 3 person quests until like 30/35.... then add some group quests) could realliy work... Theres far too many fanbois of the original EQ for it not to at least be semi-popular.. I think you mix that with instanced-based bosses(not dungeons) like EQ2 did and you have a quality game that should have a decent subscription rate. You can leave the world-dragons in as Non-instanced and thus having some degree of world-pve competition.... perhaps even pair them with keying like before.... It wouldnt even have to be a strict cock-block as you could provide other means of keying up(perhaps just at a slower rate)


I'm sure a lot of EQ vets like myself would be happy to retire and live out the rest of their MMO-life in an EQ-like world

[Grave]

The faction/reputation system is definitely something I want to see in an EQ game, and I would also add an alignment system.

Class and race combos would be able to select certain starting alignments based on the old D&D standards, and then with the faction system you would be able to change your alignment as well as your reputation with factions through questing and other deeds.

People love that kind of stuff in games like KOTOR and Fable, and it would be just as fun in an MMO. You also can't argue that it would take too much development time, because it's really no different than Blizzard developing entirely separate quest lines for Horde and Alliance. You'd just have to have different quest lines for whether the player wants to go down an evil path or a good one. The cool thing being it's entirely up to the player rather than forced upon them. They could ping pong back and forth and remain completely chaotic neutral if they choose.

Of course, a large amount of quests should be neutral as well, especially dungeon quests, so players are not inconvenienced by grouping with good/evil peers. It would need to be carefully conceived so that players did not feel forced into situations where they would ruin their faction.

[bvnk3r]

Quote - "1. Graphics - There have been debates between WoW's cartoony vibe and EQ2's supershit plastic looks. Where would you like to see the next generation of MMO's?

I'd like to see a game that can pull off nice graphics like what Vanguard was striving for without making the game seem dead and lifeless everywhere you turn. I'd also like to see the game based around computers people use and not some top of the line rig that still gets brought to it's knees by poor coding and planning.

2. Spoiler Sites - As the genre has developed you can find out about almost any hidden quest or Easter egg, quest rewards, Boss skills and itemization. Is this good for the games in general? Is there a way to make people less reliant on these types of sites? If you were developing a new game would you embrace this as an inevitability and explain every facet of the game, or did you prefer the old EQ approach of not telling anyone shit about stats ect?" -end quote



Personally i'd like to see next gen graphics, WITH playability. We don't want another EQ2 and Vanguard shitpile. There are some nice graphics out there, one being LotRO, if you have everything ultra maxed out, it's one of the best atm. Still, they need to go ahead and kick it up a notch on graphics. The hardware is available, need to utilize it better.

As for spoilers... There's really nothing you can do about it, so why not embrace it. I think that having a in-game search database or more informative / better clues by quest givers will eliminate a lot of this. Even on raids, there could be an NPC(s) in the game that has previous experience with the encounter, you have the option to go talk to him about his experiences, listen to his story, etc... all the while adding storyline and clues on what you can do. That's just an example though, there are many ways to produce in-game information to keep people involved in the game more, and less time surfing the net for possible answers.

[Braen]

I have always wanted guilds to mean more than just being a glorified chat room. EQ2 had some great ideas but I want to take it further. I want a "Shadowbanesque" type guild system where guilds compete with one another for land, titles, trophies, glory and even the game world(s) itself.

My main idea I have been working on was created during EQ1 and seeing their deity system. Now, and then, all the deities are basically loot mobs and faction. I want them to mean more.

I created a system where individuals and guilds can align themselves with a deity and that deity would grant Spells/Abilities/Advantages/Disadvantages. I called it my SAAD™ System. I also wanted to take an idea from Black and White and use a NPC "Belief" system where followers of the different Dieties would do quests/tasks/projects that effected their belief in the diety you and your guild followed. This NPC belief would make your deity more powerful, therefore increasing it's effect on the SAAD™ System.

I also wanted to build a dynamic quest system that could create content, with or without active dev interaction, that would create quests based on local or global situations. For example, let's say you are a follower of an evil god. You go to yoru guilds temple and the Avatar of the god says, "go to soandso city and poison their drinking water" You have to figure out how you can accomplish this. Once done, the townsfolk will gain belief in your god as you have done this in his name. This adds to the evil gods belief.

Now conversely the quest system would react to this. and the opposing deities temples could give a quest to cure the poison and counteract the work of the evil god.

[Borzak]

The only way to combat spoiler sites is to interject some sort of randomness or just flat change/redesign them regularly. I'm not sure how much a developer would want to get into that tho.

It's much like boss encounters that run off scripts. Once you learn the scripts (and post them) a 6 year old could do many of them. Of course the more random you make encounters/quest the more people gripe they got the crappy one or the hard one etc....

[Grave]

Originally Posted by Braen

My main idea I have been working on was created during EQ1 and seeing their deity system. Now, and then, all the deities are basically loot mobs and faction. I want them to mean more.

This is a big point too. I took a similar stance on my blog awhile back. I guess it's just me being too much of a lore nerd, but it really bothered me that a character that worshipped Innoruuk was killing him every PoHate raid with no regard whatsoever.

I wont shove my blog in people's face but here was the gist of that post, as you can see I'm definitely with you on some kind of diety-based spell/ability system.

Let the player make an educated choice later in his or her character’s life. Players should not have to choose a deity based on a brief paragraph at character creation. Instead, have players come into contact with the various religious beliefs that permeate the world as they explore, and offer them some introductory quests given by sects of a specific religion that don’t force them into making a decision just yet. This way, the player can get a feel for what the religion represents and see if it is something that meshes with their own characters beliefs and values. When they are ready, have them undertake a series of quests similar to EQ2 which will solidify their choice and unlock further advancement. EQ2 came close to getting this right, but failed to make the player care much about his or her choice. Most players just ask others what the best choice would be based on the buffs the deity grants them, and they choose that. Not very interesting.

Have each deity be represented by a faction. One of the main incentives to get players interested in choosing a deity would be the factions. If you read my post on reputation, you are already familiar with how this would work. Players could perform quests and tasks for a group that represented the deity of their choice, and earn rewards by advancing their reputation with them. This would allow players a concrete reason to choose a deity beyond role-playing. However, it would be important to balance the item rewards so that players do not choose a deity simply based on the rewards offered. Also, an Agnostic faction would be needed. A group who believes they owe no thanks to the Gods for their fortune, but have instead forged their own way in the world. This way, players who did not wish to select a deity for whatever reason would not feel like they were at a disadvantage.

Favor as an alternate advancement system earned through deeds. Rather than earning favor by sacrificing mundane items at an altar a la EQ2, Favor should be something the player earns through actions that their God would find pleasing. Instead of being a currency players spend to call down favors, I would make it more like an alternate form of experience, similar to AA’s from EverQuest. Players would earn this favor experience only from certain deeds, and the more they advanced the more powerful blessings the God would bestow upon them. The blessings or miracles could be controlled simply by cooldowns ranging from 30 minutes to 24 hours depending on how powerful they are. Agnostics would have to be given similar abilities based on their “free will” or some other explanation. It’s unfortunate, but it must be done for balance purposes. The system fails if any player feels punished for their choice.

Particularly dedicated followers should be able to interact directly with their God. This is a subject that always bugged me in EQ. You are able to choose a deity, and yet when you come face to face with them they are nothing more than another mob to you. While it was fun to feel powerful killing various Gods, it really doesn’t make much sense, which is why you see so many “retcons” (deliberate changes in previously established lore) and poor explanations offered by the EQ writers post-Planes of Power. Instead of this approach, I would like to see meeting your God become sort of the ultimate reward for earning reputation and favor with them. Similar to the Greek myths of old, perhaps the Gods have quests they need mortals to handle because of some strict rules that prevent them from interfering with other Gods’ plans. What better way to make the player feel like a hero than allowing them to be the chosen warrior of the Gods?

I’d also like to see a special version of the Gods’ home plane that can only be accessed by devout followers. It could have special vendors and quest givers and act as a hub of sorts for players of the same religion to meet up and possibly group for quests, and of course allow them to meet their God as mentioned above. This would be separate from the normal plane that can be accessed by all players for other purposes.

The big issue with tying spells/abilities to deities is, how do you make it so that the player chooses the god they actually want, versus the god that has the best ability for their class? This is the issue EQ2 ran into, and it would definitely be a design challenge to avoid it.

[Leviothan]

Man screw High fantasy. I don't want nostalgia. I want the same races, exclusion of some (Sarnak and the faes), and I want a new world. Call it Norrath but make it different and not nostalgic. Make a new story line that is separate from EQ1 and EQ2. Make it EQ40k. Halflings in space and such.

[Darph]

Damn you Nostalgic thread.

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You pretty much just described LotRO.

I didn't play it, but I did play AOC which had a moderately polished 1-20 that told a story (though, the group play it mixed in SUCKED.) After that it was pretty obvious that the developers didn't even play the game.

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

Taking WoW as an example, up until Scarlet Monasstary, no zone should have required more then 2 people. Shouldn't even have been elite mobs, just mostly larger packs of non-elites that would be difficult to handle solo.

Yeah I agree, I don't think lowbie group content should require a rock solid group that includes the MMO-Trinity. My.EQ3 would be probably require 2 people for most of Crushbone and maybe a 3rd for Emp and D'vinn.

Originally Posted by Composter

Seriously though, the biggest complaint against grouping is that you spend your precious game time waiting to group. Two things to fix this:

Yeah, I would ideally want people running around in 2s. Single players being 5-10% slower to advance. Wow makes it hard to level with 2-3 people due to the mechanics of some of the quests.

[Braen]

Originally Posted by Grave

The big issue with tying spells/abilities to deities is, how do you make it so that the player chooses the god they actually want, versus the god that has the best ability for their class? This is the issue EQ2 ran into, and it would definitely be a design challenge to avoid it.

To give you a quick example of the SAAD™ System at work in that instance.

Say you are a warrior. You want to pick a deity and you see that Tunare gives her warriors a bonus to regen and Innoruuk gives his a bonus to threat per hit.

Say you are a priest. Tunare grants a HoT to her priests Direct heals and a bonus to main HoTs. Inny grants the priest a Lifeleech that the heal portion can be directed at your defensive target instead of yourself.

Now because a deities effect on the SAAD™ System is based on belief. You want to work for your deity to build global NPC belief. Performing deity specific quests, hunting down PC/NPC followers of the opposing deity/deities, etc.

Also, the deities effect on your character is based on the favor you have built up with your deity. just because you join the "Big God on Campus" doesn't mean that god gives you full effect of their gifts. you have to build up favor with your god to increase your powers.

[Daezuel]

Originally Posted by Zehn - Vhex

You pretty much just described LotRO.

Damnit Zehn I was just thinking that. Lotro had some things going for it, the graphics engine is probably the best looking/working engine out there for MMO's. (at least proven) Someone really needs to convince Turbine to license their engine and just go from there.

The storyline books or chapters whatever we're pretty neat as well and these even allowed a sort of the phasing wow has been doing with Wotlk.

The music system, copy it, it's pretty awesome sitting in the middle of a new town with 3 strangers wailing away on instruments after a long day of pve/pvp, and damn busting out a song on top of someones corpses or on the ashes of their guild owned city? Yes please.

Now put in a good combat system and end game content worth staying for and ding ding ding, you have a winner.