[WoW]Arena Season 5 about to begin - free lube for clothies - Page 61

Zerai · 03-27-2009, 08:08 AM

I dunno. Queue times are still 30 seconds or less at prime time on Vengeance.

So I guess we'll see in Season 6.

Rhym · 03-27-2009, 01:56 PM

Even with upped incentives which they are doing in the up-coming season there is still the massive elephant in the room of "People don't like arenas." I don't like having no control of my character and I don't like being gibbed or gibbing someone in 2 global cooldowns with focus fire. It is boring. If they actually want to inject some life into PvP in WoW they need to move away from arenas. A BG ladder and about 5 more BG maps would be the quickest solution and actually be worth it. I'm considering going back to Warhammer, even though that game's pvp is nearly as bad, and I'm not even enthusiastic about making a switch.

kasey · 03-27-2009, 03:39 PM

As long you stop giving companies who do what you dont like your dollars all is fine and dandy. Otherwise you just promote what you hate.

Zbkuk · 03-27-2009, 03:55 PM

Rated BGs aren't the answer. In arena, you have a DK and/or a hunter ramming your asshole every game. In a rated BG, you'd just have multiple DKs and hunters gangbanging your ass every game.

Araxen · 03-27-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhym

Even with upped incentives which they are doing in the up-coming season there is still the massive elephant in the room of "People don't like arenas." I don't like having no control of my character and I don't like being gibbed or gibbing someone in 2 global cooldowns with focus fire. It is boring. If they actually want to inject some life into PvP in WoW they need to move away from arenas. A BG ladder and about 5 more BG maps would be the quickest solution and actually be worth it. I'm considering going back to Warhammer, even though that game's pvp is nearly as bad, and I'm not even enthusiastic about making a switch.

You're an idiot. Why goto Warhammer when the "pvp is nearly as bad". Just quit all together.

CXB · 03-27-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerai

I dunno. Queue times are still 30 seconds or less at prime time on Vengeance.

So I guess we'll see in Season 6.

Queues get bad in 2v2 on Ruin, but that is because there are too many people playing, not too many, as it's always been. Yesterday (thursday) at ~8pm, queues were like 4 minutes long so we stopped playing and started again at midnight when they were down to 1 min.

Makes me think how horrible they would be if participation was not down. I don't even bother to play on Sunday or Monday nights as it is.

Agraza · 03-27-2009, 07:42 PM

Has 2v2 participation truly been that affected? I assumed that they meant 3v3 and 5v5 were down. 2v2 seems steady.

Torrid · 03-27-2009, 07:56 PM

The more complicated the system, the more exploitable it is. Blizzard is now relying on obscurity to prevent abuse of the system. It will be interesting when people figure out how it works.

The problem with a zero sum reward system based on player skill is that over time, the number of participants will decline as the bad players quit faster than the better ones, which in turn makes it more difficult to win as the top players get more equipment and experience than the bottom, so participation will decline even in a perfectly balanced system. So it does make some sense to transition to a grind as the novelty wears off. A grind would also conveniently reduce the negative impact of exploitation and class imbalance.

Tolanin · 03-27-2009, 08:48 PM

WoWs pvp is just kinda old, its hard to not get the feeling of been there done that when the primary motivation is just gear with a bit better stats so i think they should expect that fewer people will play as time goes on when they fail to innovate at all beyond the original bg concept.

blizz is so good at making stuff fun its really to bad they dont invest more in making the servers good enough to handle pvp like wintergrasp but not pointless... with their tech and devs they could easily rape warhammers face off with the exact same concepts of zone control in the old world using phasing i bet.

CXB · 03-27-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agraza

Has 2v2 participation truly been that affected? I assumed that they meant 3v3 and 5v5 were down. 2v2 seems steady.

There are way less gladiator teams than even S1, let alone S4. This in part has nothing to do with participation since the new system makes making new teams pointless, but there has to be less people playing.

Linus · 03-28-2009, 12:25 PM

The biggest issue is that there is really no incentive to "try out" PvP if you've never gotten into it before.

Coming to WoW from EQ, I didn't really enjoy PvP, and I didn't really enjoy tradeskills. Tradeskills, while still a timesink, at least have a definite progression and loads-o-usefulness along the way. Plus they aren't an end unto themselves - you do them to make your overall character stronger. I have maxed tradeskills on a couple of characters and find them, while not ultra-fun, to not feel like a complete waste of time (that is the incredibly small amount of it I have to play these days.)

The problem with PvP is that they've put it in this bubble. Arenas are deathmatches, they're is no point except "kill or be killed" - no war (since you can fight same side), no flags, no caps, no resources to fight over. Plus it's a separate activity I have to make time to do outside of dailies, heroics, raids, whatever. And the only things I can get by doing PvP simply ... make me better at PvP. So in addition to being complex (3 different ratings, hidden metrics, different stats, different specs, different glyphs), the only reward for dabbling is maybe getting your shit pushed in in 10 seconds instead of 5.

As it stands now, there's no carrot for me to even try Arenas if I'm ambivalent about them now. I can get goal-oriented PvP on my time, solo, in BGs. I know that it's going to take weeks of work of being awful just to maybe get a few pieces of gear... why start?

Rhym · 03-28-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araxen

You're an idiot. Why goto Warhammer when the "pvp is nearly as bad". Just quit all together.

At least Mythic is working on their PvP issues and have resolved a lot of the complaints I had. WoW is doing nothing. I don't blame them. They make money off all the carebears and alt levelers and not the PvPers.

Izuldan · 03-28-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhym

65% fewer Arena teams in Season 5 | SwagVault MMO Blog

Arena participation down 65% to 75% from the previous season. Not surprising. It's just boring. I don't enjoy being chain CCed for the entire game. Win or lose I don't have fun because I rarely am in control of my character.

It's always been boring. The difference now is with the ratings, you can't just queue up and go 0 wins 10 losses every week and gradually work your way up to some of the best gear around.

So now there is no incentive for the horrible players to do arenas. You can't tell me (before arenas came out) that people queued up over and over and over again for BGs because they were fun. They did it because they had something to gain from it, whether it was a title (back in the days of Warlord) or for equipment.

It's kinda interesting the shift from BC to WOTLK. In BC, people would rather do BG/arenas because it was "easy" and get all in purple. Then they would raid in their PvP gear to start until they could replace it (not everyone, but a fair amount). People complained all the time about others LOLing their way to epics by AFKing in BGs or losing their way in arenas.

Now they fix this, and it's gone the other way. No suprise there. Now people can't be bothered to do better than .500 in order to raise their arena ranking, so they don't try. Now people are bringing in their gear from raids to arenas.

Frax · 03-28-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izuldan

It's always been boring. The difference now is with the ratings, you can't just queue up and go 0 wins 10 losses every week and gradually work your way up to some of the best gear around.

Now they can just sit in 25 man raids and pretty much do the same thing. The arena's have been terrible since the start. The more rewards they move away from the average to bad players, the less those average to bad player is going to bother with going to the arena at all.

findar · 03-28-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izuldan

Now they fix this, and it's gone the other way. No suprise there. Now people can't be bothered to do better than .500 in order to raise their arena ranking, so they don't try. Now people are bringing in their gear from raids to arenas.

it's not just this, but class imbalance has a big factor. some classes simply have abilities that vastly make up for skill and for the classes without this, it just isn't fun.

03-27-2009, 03:39 PM	#903 (permalink)
kasey Internet to post ratio soon 1:1 Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: somewhere close.... -1547 Internets Posts: 1,834	As long you stop giving companies who do what you dont like your dollars all is fine and dandy. Otherwise you just promote what you hate. __________________ ,,I,, >< ,,I,,

03-27-2009, 07:42 PM	#907 (permalink)
Agraza Issh good, no? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,042	Has 2v2 participation truly been that affected? I assumed that they meant 3v3 and 5v5 were down. 2v2 seems steady. __________________ Theel Maas, eJapan::Join us

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03-27-2009, 08:08 AM	#901 (permalink)
Zerai ~ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An Igloo Posts: 3,871 +6 Internets	I dunno. Queue times are still 30 seconds or less at prime time on Vengeance. So I guess we'll see in Season 6.

03-27-2009, 01:56 PM	#902 (permalink)
Rhym Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 315 -26 Internets	Even with upped incentives which they are doing in the up-coming season there is still the massive elephant in the room of "People don't like arenas." I don't like having no control of my character and I don't like being gibbed or gibbing someone in 2 global cooldowns with focus fire. It is boring. If they actually want to inject some life into PvP in WoW they need to move away from arenas. A BG ladder and about 5 more BG maps would be the quickest solution and actually be worth it. I'm considering going back to Warhammer, even though that game's pvp is nearly as bad, and I'm not even enthusiastic about making a switch.

03-27-2009, 03:55 PM	#904 (permalink)
Zbkuk Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 278 +4 Internets	Rated BGs aren't the answer. In arena, you have a DK and/or a hunter ramming your asshole every game. In a rated BG, you'd just have multiple DKs and hunters gangbanging your ass every game.

03-27-2009, 07:56 PM	#908 (permalink)
Torrid Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,268	The more complicated the system, the more exploitable it is. Blizzard is now relying on obscurity to prevent abuse of the system. It will be interesting when people figure out how it works. The problem with a zero sum reward system based on player skill is that over time, the number of participants will decline as the bad players quit faster than the better ones, which in turn makes it more difficult to win as the top players get more equipment and experience than the bottom, so participation will decline even in a perfectly balanced system. So it does make some sense to transition to a grind as the novelty wears off. A grind would also conveniently reduce the negative impact of exploitation and class imbalance.

03-27-2009, 08:48 PM	#909 (permalink)
Tolanin h8 Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,364 -34 Internets	WoWs pvp is just kinda old, its hard to not get the feeling of been there done that when the primary motivation is just gear with a bit better stats so i think they should expect that fewer people will play as time goes on when they fail to innovate at all beyond the original bg concept. blizz is so good at making stuff fun its really to bad they dont invest more in making the servers good enough to handle pvp like wintergrasp but not pointless... with their tech and devs they could easily rape warhammers face off with the exact same concepts of zone control in the old world using phasing i bet.

03-28-2009, 12:25 PM	#911 (permalink)
Linus had the chance to ask the world to dance Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Midlothian Posts: 248 +2 Internets	The biggest issue is that there is really no incentive to "try out" PvP if you've never gotten into it before. Coming to WoW from EQ, I didn't really enjoy PvP, and I didn't really enjoy tradeskills. Tradeskills, while still a timesink, at least have a definite progression and loads-o-usefulness along the way. Plus they aren't an end unto themselves - you do them to make your overall character stronger. I have maxed tradeskills on a couple of characters and find them, while not ultra-fun, to not feel like a complete waste of time (that is the incredibly small amount of it I have to play these days.) The problem with PvP is that they've put it in this bubble. Arenas are deathmatches, they're is no point except "kill or be killed" - no war (since you can fight same side), no flags, no caps, no resources to fight over. Plus it's a separate activity I have to make time to do outside of dailies, heroics, raids, whatever. And the only things I can get by doing PvP simply ... make me better at PvP. So in addition to being complex (3 different ratings, hidden metrics, different stats, different specs, different glyphs), the only reward for dabbling is maybe getting your shit pushed in in 10 seconds instead of 5. As it stands now, there's no carrot for me to even try Arenas if I'm ambivalent about them now. I can get goal-oriented PvP on my time, solo, in BGs. I know that it's going to take weeks of work of being awful just to maybe get a few pieces of gear... why start?