[WoW]Arena Season 5 about to begin - free lube for clothies - Page 60

findar · 03-26-2009, 10:23 AM

to build on that, have each boss drop whatever token. you can choose to turn in that token to start from that boss or turn it in for X reward. nothing is gayer then doing gauntlet events like that and having to reclear 99 levels of garbage for the end boss(paper mario i'm looking at you)

Staberinde · 03-26-2009, 10:55 AM

I'm guessing the changes were made so that they could give items below 1500 rating without essentially giving those who start arena free loot off the bat. Also starting out in arena in the current system can be very offputting for many new it.

I've known people who in the past had started arena and essentially had to spend 3 weeks of losing almost every game to get down to a spot they could compete in (this was back in Season 3 when the only alternative to getting pvp gear was grinding AV ad nauseum).

I imagine most of the "less than average" people who go through this in the current season would quit out of frustration. With the new system they can get progress off the bat instead of losing tons of games immediately whilst also having rating gear they might realistically be able to achieve. these things combined should make first experiances of pvp more enjoyable for players getting their feet wet, which in the long run should mean more hanging around long enough to gear up item/skill wise enough to provide more competition at the high end.

Javvo · 03-26-2009, 01:21 PM

Hmmm. I guess ratings will balance out like they did this season with everyone starting at zero. Which is awesome.

The best part about all of this is hard mode ulduar weapon equivilants for pvp, which will encourage more people to compete. Fuck yeah.

Clug · 03-26-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javvo

The best part about all of this is hard mode ulduar weapon equivilants for pvp, which will encourage more people to compete. Fuck yeah.

No it won't. No one cares about min/maxing anymore.

Dumar · 03-26-2009, 04:45 PM

i want a clarification from the developer responsible for arenas.

i want to know why he thought it was a good idea in the first place.

Rhym · 03-26-2009, 05:55 PM

65% fewer Arena teams in Season 5 | SwagVault MMO Blog

Arena participation down 65% to 75% from the previous season. Not surprising. It's just boring. I don't enjoy being chain CCed for the entire game. Win or lose I don't have fun because I rarely am in control of my character.

Foggy · 03-26-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumar

i want a clarification from the developer responsible for arenas.

i want to know why he thought it was a good idea in the first place.

They were originally against arena. There was an old blue post explaining that they would be unable to balance it for all the classes so it wouldn't work. At 2.0/TBC they relented and implemented arenas anyways. Probably because they knew just giving pvpers Eye of the Storm wasn't enough and arenas were the most clamored for new pvp feature.

Of course their mistake wasn't implementing arenas, it was never created seperate rules/systems for pvp and pve. That made the balancing virtually impossible. The handling of arena was good the first three seasons and season four wasn't too bad. The devs in charge of arena and balance are just terrible now though. In hindsight, rated BGs should have been released with TBC along with arenas. There are a few tweaks that would have really helped arena as well, such as using high level players to help with balance and changing resilience so that it is a required stat, completely eliminating PvE gear in areans.

Robxiii · 03-26-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhym

65% fewer Arena teams in Season 5 | SwagVault MMO Blog

Arena participation down 65% to 75% from the previous season. Not surprising. It's just boring. I don't enjoy being chain CCed for the entire game. Win or lose I don't have fun because I rarely am in control of my character.

I have to agree with this. I tried getting back into WoW last month, told myself it's just 10 games, but I could never do it. I'd lose 3 games, get -23 each time, win a game, that team would also lose 23 points and we gained...1. I did read that the first 40-50 games ratings will be borked, but I couldnt even stomach 10 much less 50.

Javvo · 03-26-2009, 11:46 PM

If you lose to bad teams you will lose points obviously. The change with the new system is that if you are just starting out, say 1500 and lose to a 1450 team for your first game you will lose points and then get put against a worse team. And the system will just keep putting you against worse/better teams until you're at a rating you "should" be at according to their hidden calculator.

Rusty Dagger · 03-27-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhym

65% fewer Arena teams in Season 5 | SwagVault MMO Blog

Arena participation down 65% to 75% from the previous season. Not surprising. It's just boring. I don't enjoy being chain CCed for the entire game. Win or lose I don't have fun because I rarely am in control of my character.

Doesn't surprise me at all. I loved vanilla pvp and wasn't overly enthused with tbc arena but played and generally enjoyed it with moderate success but have absolutely no interest in wrath pvp. Even playing on a pvp server is boring; I end up fighting more people per day just from mining skirmishes than I found all of 55-80 leveling up.

I think they need to bite the bullet and realize it really makes no fucking difference whatsoever for the "haves" if the "have nots" get to wear full deafly/furious pvp gear. Who fucking cares? How many people have 5/5 valorous? How many of them are fucking retards? Need I dig up armories of hunters with BoH with green chestpieces? Lucky scrubs or alts who have undying? Does it make pve somehow less worthwhile to know that someone .. somewhere .. is doing 4.5k dps just hitting random buttons because they have full 213/226 gear? No. It doesn't.

I readily admit I'm never going to be the guy who plays with the best because I'm not. I'm not even close. Give me the right comp and maybe I can hit 1900, 2000 if I'm extremely fucking lucky. But why am I going to bother? Most likely I'll be lucky to hit 1700 which gets me what, 3 items? The entire system isn't worth it. You either play it for gear (which, by definition, the majority can never have) or for fun. Which it's not. Whether it's CC, burst, or just plain ol shitty pvp mechanics that their stubborn asses refuse to address, pvp is about as unenjoyable as it has ever been. Hitting rank 10+ might have required you to be an unemployed antisocial shut-in but at least you weren't required to have warlord gear to have a snowball's chance in hell at capping a warsong flag.

CXB · 03-27-2009, 05:55 AM

The two biggest factors in that decrease are the new system (which makes creating new teams largely pointless) and how hard it is for your average scrub to get ANY gear at all (especially in comparison to how easy it is to get PvE gear).

Putting the updated system in mid season was one of the dumbest things they've done. If you look at the new rating reqs on MMO champ, you can get a full set without passing 1500. Yeah, you're gonna start at 0, but there's no way that your hidden rating also starts at 0, it's likely 12-1500. It's purely psychological since new players will rise pretty much no matter what when they begin playing instead of immediately plummeting like they do now.

The reality is it is probably STILL going to be easier to get the lower tier PvP gear (which will be deadly) with PvE badges. That shit needs to be removed. Then you could have players who weren't terribly skilled/geared have all of deadly within their grasp with the chance of improving and climbing up the furious ratings.

Some of the ratings don't make sense though. Why the hell is the honor cloak 2k? The thing is shit and I will wear one of the new PvE str cloaks over it, just seemed weird and stuck out to me.

Sharmai · 03-27-2009, 06:03 AM

Arena is boring for most players especially casuals. The harder it is to achieve better and better gear the fewer the players you will have playing it. I am not sure what kind of incentive they could reward to get me to really commit to the arena.

It's just not fun.

Gnome Eater · 03-27-2009, 06:07 AM

The 'start at zero' thing is just a thinly veiled ploy to give superbaddies the impression that they are progressing to 1100. Sure, you might get a retard to think that he is improving, but absolutely everyone still knows that they are retarded.

Zerai · 03-27-2009, 06:20 AM

The biggest problem with Arena is why the fuck was there no hateful weapons. And why the fuck are they removing Deadly weapons?

Raiding and Arena should be completely seperate. But they aren't. I don't do 25 man raiding because I don't want to. But rolling into arena and a warrior in full valorous and 2 Betrayers of Humanity + a DK with another BoH and you just get bent.

They need to seperate PVP and PVE gearing. Resilience isn't enough. You need either a + player damage modifier or some sort of stat that players have that NPCs don't. I made a post earlier about using Armor Penetration and Spell Penetration for this since they are universally accepted as shit (least ArP is). They had it all lined up in TBC and then they were like whoa whoa hold on..and are now busy trying to shove it down our throats in raiding.

Some crossover is fine. Like you can use a couple of PVE pieces until you get the better pvp pieces is np. But pve shouldn't be BIS for pvp or it ruins the whole concept of arena.

And as others have said...having pvp rewards from pve encounters or with badges is just fucking stupid.

kaid · 03-27-2009, 06:42 AM

Still without those retards you are left with fairly empty arenas and long ass queue times. Most of these people are like me I am a 1550 or so player I fully get that. My spec and class were not chosen for arena uberness but I do like to pvp from time to time. Right now there is no incentive to bother with arenas though since naxx is easy to pug and I can get my free purples there with a LOT less effort.

Without the super baddies you get your ghost town arenas and long queue times because while everybody wants to play to crush there are only so many crushers and a whole lot more crushees. If there is no incentive for the crushee to continue playing they leave as shown by what happened with the arena score change.

03-26-2009, 10:23 AM	#886 (permalink)
findar Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,118 +23 Internets	to build on that, have each boss drop whatever token. you can choose to turn in that token to start from that boss or turn it in for X reward. nothing is gayer then doing gauntlet events like that and having to reclear 99 levels of garbage for the end boss(paper mario i'm looking at you) __________________ -its clobbering time

03-27-2009, 05:55 AM	#896 (permalink)
CXB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 486 -1 Internets	The two biggest factors in that decrease are the new system (which makes creating new teams largely pointless) and how hard it is for your average scrub to get ANY gear at all (especially in comparison to how easy it is to get PvE gear). Putting the updated system in mid season was one of the dumbest things they've done. If you look at the new rating reqs on MMO champ, you can get a full set without passing 1500. Yeah, you're gonna start at 0, but there's no way that your hidden rating also starts at 0, it's likely 12-1500. It's purely psychological since new players will rise pretty much no matter what when they begin playing instead of immediately plummeting like they do now. The reality is it is probably STILL going to be easier to get the lower tier PvP gear (which will be deadly) with PvE badges. That shit needs to be removed. Then you could have players who weren't terribly skilled/geared have all of deadly within their grasp with the chance of improving and climbing up the furious ratings. Some of the ratings don't make sense though. Why the hell is the honor cloak 2k? The thing is shit and I will wear one of the new PvE str cloaks over it, just seemed weird and stuck out to me. __________________

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03-26-2009, 10:55 AM	#887 (permalink)
Staberinde Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 108 +0 Internets	I'm guessing the changes were made so that they could give items below 1500 rating without essentially giving those who start arena free loot off the bat. Also starting out in arena in the current system can be very offputting for many new it. I've known people who in the past had started arena and essentially had to spend 3 weeks of losing almost every game to get down to a spot they could compete in (this was back in Season 3 when the only alternative to getting pvp gear was grinding AV ad nauseum). I imagine most of the "less than average" people who go through this in the current season would quit out of frustration. With the new system they can get progress off the bat instead of losing tons of games immediately whilst also having rating gear they might realistically be able to achieve. these things combined should make first experiances of pvp more enjoyable for players getting their feet wet, which in the long run should mean more hanging around long enough to gear up item/skill wise enough to provide more competition at the high end.

03-26-2009, 01:21 PM	#888 (permalink)
Javvo Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 269 -8 Internets	Hmmm. I guess ratings will balance out like they did this season with everyone starting at zero. Which is awesome. The best part about all of this is hard mode ulduar weapon equivilants for pvp, which will encourage more people to compete. Fuck yeah.

03-26-2009, 04:45 PM	#890 (permalink)
Dumar Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,496 -246 Internets	i want a clarification from the developer responsible for arenas. i want to know why he thought it was a good idea in the first place.

03-26-2009, 05:55 PM	#891 (permalink)
Rhym Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 321 -27 Internets	65% fewer Arena teams in Season 5 \| SwagVault MMO Blog Arena participation down 65% to 75% from the previous season. Not surprising. It's just boring. I don't enjoy being chain CCed for the entire game. Win or lose I don't have fun because I rarely am in control of my character.

03-26-2009, 11:46 PM	#894 (permalink)
Javvo Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 269 -8 Internets	If you lose to bad teams you will lose points obviously. The change with the new system is that if you are just starting out, say 1500 and lose to a 1450 team for your first game you will lose points and then get put against a worse team. And the system will just keep putting you against worse/better teams until you're at a rating you "should" be at according to their hidden calculator.

03-27-2009, 06:07 AM	#898 (permalink)
Gnome Eater Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,230 +3 Internets	The 'start at zero' thing is just a thinly veiled ploy to give superbaddies the impression that they are progressing to 1100. Sure, you might get a retard to think that he is improving, but absolutely everyone still knows that they are retarded.

03-27-2009, 06:20 AM	#899 (permalink)
Zerai ~ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An Igloo Posts: 4,360 +12 Internets	The biggest problem with Arena is why the fuck was there no hateful weapons. And why the fuck are they removing Deadly weapons? Raiding and Arena should be completely seperate. But they aren't. I don't do 25 man raiding because I don't want to. But rolling into arena and a warrior in full valorous and 2 Betrayers of Humanity + a DK with another BoH and you just get bent. They need to seperate PVP and PVE gearing. Resilience isn't enough. You need either a + player damage modifier or some sort of stat that players have that NPCs don't. I made a post earlier about using Armor Penetration and Spell Penetration for this since they are universally accepted as shit (least ArP is). They had it all lined up in TBC and then they were like whoa whoa hold on..and are now busy trying to shove it down our throats in raiding. Some crossover is fine. Like you can use a couple of PVE pieces until you get the better pvp pieces is np. But pve shouldn't be BIS for pvp or it ruins the whole concept of arena. And as others have said...having pvp rewards from pve encounters or with badges is just fucking stupid.

03-27-2009, 06:42 AM	#900 (permalink)
kaid Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 299 -6 Internets	Still without those retards you are left with fairly empty arenas and long ass queue times. Most of these people are like me I am a 1550 or so player I fully get that. My spec and class were not chosen for arena uberness but I do like to pvp from time to time. Right now there is no incentive to bother with arenas though since naxx is easy to pug and I can get my free purples there with a LOT less effort. Without the super baddies you get your ghost town arenas and long queue times because while everybody wants to play to crush there are only so many crushers and a whole lot more crushees. If there is no incentive for the crushee to continue playing they leave as shown by what happened with the arena score change.