[WoW]WotLK

[Twobit Whore]

Originally Posted by Dumar

ultima online provided this over 10 years ago. next time do your hw or you're getting detention.

UO had unlimited new dungeons, landscapes, areas, monsters and items? And you could never max out a character?

Wow.. who knew?

Oh wait, you mean running around and preloading a Corp Por was unique entertainment? Well gee.. if only WoW had some sort of PvP server where you could fight random people. That might be something they should consider.

[Pyros]

Well at least in UO, hybrids weren't better than pure classes and Loken wasn't so hard.

[brekk]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

ITT people expect 24/7 nonstop entertainment for 15 bucks. I'm usually the last one to compare an MMO sub with other entertainment venues, but there is NOTHING on this planet that will provide you with 720 hours of unique entertainment a month for 15 bucks. NOTHING. And if you find it, please share with the class.

Everquest did.

From late 2000 to mid 2004 there is a void in which I bought no games except EQ expansions. I didn't even get WC3 until the fall of '04.

[darksensei]

Originally Posted by Twobit Whore

ITT people expect 24/7 nonstop entertainment for 15 bucks. I'm usually the last one to compare an MMO sub with other entertainment venues, but there is NOTHING on this planet that will provide you with 720 hours of unique entertainment a month for 15 bucks. NOTHING. And if you find it, please share with the class.

ITT people who want anything other than continual farm mode, give or take a couple weeks a year.

[Shabado]

EQ could fill hours and hours. When I quit during PoP, if all worthwhile raid targets were down, or if I logged on at 3am, or if the required one in two of our raid force wasn't a cleric or a box, or whatever, I would go farm trivial mobs for AA's.

WoW would be the same if there were AA's, and no sane person would want a return to that.

Expecting WoW to be your sole source of entertainment is no more realistic than expecting your cable box to be.

[Shinrai]

If you've got too much time on your hands and nothing vaguely useful to do with your life then it sounds like the achievement system is Blizzard's answer.

[Mist]

Originally Posted by Shinrai

If you've got too much time on your hands and nothing vaguely useful to do with your life then it sounds like the achievement system is Blizzard's answer.

A meaningful PvP system that was actually fun would be a better answer. It still amazes me with the VAST resources Blizzard has, they can't add compelling PvP to a game with an otherwise excellent combat system.

[Xequecal]

Originally Posted by Mist

A meaningful PvP system that was actually fun would be a better answer. It still amazes me with the VAST resources Blizzard has, they can't add compelling PvP to a game with an otherwise excellent combat system.

Blizzard does not have vast resources. They are a subsidiary of Vivendi who gets all their profits, and then designates them a budget.

[Spontaneous Cumbustion]

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Blizzard does not have vast resources. They are a subsidiary of Vivendi who gets all their profits, and then designates them a budget.

Way to split hairs.

How about, why wouldn't Vivendi take the massive profits and funnel them towards Blizzard to make a worthwhile PvP system which would likely continue to up their subscriptions.

[Hardcore Cracka]

Because Vivendi looks at the numbers and sees continuous growth with the budget they are allocating and makes the obvious choice to not chance it.

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by Mist

A meaningful PvP system that was actually fun would be a better answer. It still amazes me with the VAST resources Blizzard has, they can't add compelling PvP to a game with an otherwise excellent combat system.

the problem is they want to control everything. they want to make every fucking thing in the game discrete. just stop this and put in a simple system and let the players go.

if you have a pvp zone, don't start/stop it at certain times, don't give handicap buffs, don't limit the amount of people in bgs, don't limit all these things. they do this way too much.


pvp needs to be freeform and free of discrete quantities and control to flourish.

[Mist]

Activision Blizzard, Inc. (NASDAQ: ATVI) is a French-owned, America-based video game developer and publisher, partially owned by conglomerate Vivendi SA.

ActivisionBlizzard is it's own company now. Vivendi has a large but partial stake in it, but is not directly involved in it's day to day operations.

[Ninen]

Far too many folks in the last few pages fall into the trap of believing they ARE Joe Everyman (or at least write like it). Because THEY like X, X is the ONLY right way of doing things, and obviously every other well adjusted person feels the same. Anyone who doesn't like X is obviously off their medication and a danger to society, and should be shot just to get the eventual result of their problems over with here and now.

This stance makes for great arguing, but not so much for discussion.

[Drave]

Originally Posted by Ninen

Far too many folks in the last few pages fall into the trap of believing they ARE Joe Everyman (or at least write like it). Because THEY like X, X is the ONLY right way of doing things, and obviously every other well adjusted person feels the same. Anyone who doesn't like X is obviously off their medication and a danger to society, and should be shot just to get the eventual result of their problems over with here and now.

This stance makes for great arguing, but not so much for discussion.

Lots of changes from what we've seen over the last few years. We're all going through some part of denial, anger, bargaining, depression or acceptance. (I'm still in denial )

[Dumar]

Originally Posted by Ninen

Far too many folks in the last few pages fall into the trap of believing they ARE Joe Everyman (or at least write like it). Because THEY like X, X is the ONLY right way of doing things, and obviously every other well adjusted person feels the same. Anyone who doesn't like X is obviously off their medication and a danger to society, and should be shot just to get the eventual result of their problems over with here and now.

This stance makes for great arguing, but not so much for discussion.

i'll tell you what happened.

when this industry was young, game designers designed the games that they really wanted to make. from pure thought stuff, they imagined worlds we could play in and ourselves have an effect on, from the peoples, economy, to as many things as possible in it. their motivation was purely the gameplay because in their thinking, real gameplay would bring about success, would bring about financial success. do what you love; the money will come.

this is no longer the case. and you see this all across the industry and in other industries too. game designers no longer motivate themselves by trying to conjure up ideas about great gameplay and allowing players to do and interact with others and the world itself. their motivation, after the commercialization and entry of the giant megalomerate entites into this industry, is purely to design in a way that caters to everyone that has access to a credit card, to design purely based on accessibility to garner sub fees to make the suits happy. this is not gameplay motivated design. this is money motivated design. this is design that has no foundation in love of the profession whatsoever. it's purely for accessibility and financial reasons.

this is BAD design. good design isn't based on financial considerations; it's based on gameplay considerations. there is no opinion here. while wow is a financial success, it doesn't make it a well designed game just because such. you can -net me and spew infractions all you want, but blizzard sold out somewhere along the line, and everyone here should call it like it is:

it's design based on financial considerations, not gameplay ones. that's the bottom line.